GTO questions
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GTO questions
Ok, bits and pieces pop up all over the boards about the next GTO, but no one has really but it together. I know we have a couple people in the know who have been following the GTO as much as they've been watching for a new f-body, so I thought I'd post my questions here.
- Are they planning on building the next GTO stateside?
- If they do build it here, will it have a lower price tag than the Australian import we are about to start getting now?
- With Holden appearing to be the manufacturer who is going to be working on GM's low cost rear wheel drive cars (as compared to Caddy being the high cost rear wheel drive platform), how exactly will this work. Will the be designing and building all the cars and importing them out to GM's companies worldwide. Or are they just going to do design and the cars will be assembled in their respective country?
- If it's design in Australia, and build elsewhere. Will the regional brands have any design options as well? I mean is Holden basically designing a chassis, and the regional brands will be setting up their own drive trains and such on top of that chassis?
I apologize if any of the questions seem stupid. I really do not know a lot about the industry. I just like big, fast cars. 2006-2007 is around the time I will be looking to trade in my car, and it seems like thats when a whole slew of new opportunities may be available that aren't right now. So I guess I'm trying to get a peek into the future. After buying a house last month it's weird how money priorities change.
- Are they planning on building the next GTO stateside?
- If they do build it here, will it have a lower price tag than the Australian import we are about to start getting now?
- With Holden appearing to be the manufacturer who is going to be working on GM's low cost rear wheel drive cars (as compared to Caddy being the high cost rear wheel drive platform), how exactly will this work. Will the be designing and building all the cars and importing them out to GM's companies worldwide. Or are they just going to do design and the cars will be assembled in their respective country?
- If it's design in Australia, and build elsewhere. Will the regional brands have any design options as well? I mean is Holden basically designing a chassis, and the regional brands will be setting up their own drive trains and such on top of that chassis?
I apologize if any of the questions seem stupid. I really do not know a lot about the industry. I just like big, fast cars. 2006-2007 is around the time I will be looking to trade in my car, and it seems like thats when a whole slew of new opportunities may be available that aren't right now. So I guess I'm trying to get a peek into the future. After buying a house last month it's weird how money priorities change.
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Next GTO will debut in 07 after the initial GM/Holden import Contract expires (3 years). It will be built at the Hamtrack plant on a version of the Sigma/VE platform. The new one is supposed to be lower and wider, and curvier in person...according to those that have seen it.
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From: The Golden State
Adding to Branden's post, the costs of labor in Australia is lower than here in the US, so don't think it would be cheaper simply because it's built here. The big advantage of building GTO here is volume. Australia's entire annual car market is smaller than the annual sales of Ford's F150 alone!
The best way of describing GM Holden's role (it is still part of GM), is by looking at the new Chevrolet Malibu. It was primarily engineered by GM's european arm, Opel & Vauxhall. However, GM North Ameriac is also producing that car here as a Malibu & the next Grand Am. It's basically an Opel Vectra & a SAAB 9/5, but it's been given a different skin, interior, and suspension tune (softer for rougher US roads) and sold here.
In the same way GM's european arm handled the heavy lifting developing that chassis, GM Holden is developing the low cost RWD chassis. The versions sold here will likely have different skin, interior, and suspension tune, but it will be Holden that's doing the heavy lifting here.
The only new RWD chassis GM North America has developed since the late 1970s is the C5 Corvette of 1997 (the C6 is an evolution of that & the F3 chassis was mostly done by 1980). Most engineers at GM today have worked on nothing but FWD cars! Meanwhile, Holden has been doing RWD nonstop, and has proven its ability to come up with complete cars for a fraction of what North America can do it for. That's why they have the job.
The Holden Monaro was designed to be profitable producing 5,000 cars per year for just 3 years. Now they have a contract to produce an additional 18,000 per year(!) over a 3 year period, in addition to expanding their planned production by almost 2 years!
As for 2007, I suspect it would be a very good year to buy a good fast car.
The best way of describing GM Holden's role (it is still part of GM), is by looking at the new Chevrolet Malibu. It was primarily engineered by GM's european arm, Opel & Vauxhall. However, GM North Ameriac is also producing that car here as a Malibu & the next Grand Am. It's basically an Opel Vectra & a SAAB 9/5, but it's been given a different skin, interior, and suspension tune (softer for rougher US roads) and sold here.
In the same way GM's european arm handled the heavy lifting developing that chassis, GM Holden is developing the low cost RWD chassis. The versions sold here will likely have different skin, interior, and suspension tune, but it will be Holden that's doing the heavy lifting here.
The only new RWD chassis GM North America has developed since the late 1970s is the C5 Corvette of 1997 (the C6 is an evolution of that & the F3 chassis was mostly done by 1980). Most engineers at GM today have worked on nothing but FWD cars! Meanwhile, Holden has been doing RWD nonstop, and has proven its ability to come up with complete cars for a fraction of what North America can do it for. That's why they have the job.
The Holden Monaro was designed to be profitable producing 5,000 cars per year for just 3 years. Now they have a contract to produce an additional 18,000 per year(!) over a 3 year period, in addition to expanding their planned production by almost 2 years!
As for 2007, I suspect it would be a very good year to buy a good fast car.
Last edited by guionM; Aug 7, 2003 at 07:27 PM.
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Originally posted by Meccadeth
So the new big RWD chassis production plant is going to be in Australia?
So the new big RWD chassis production plant is going to be in Australia?
Kind of like you & I developing a car on computer. I have a market 1/10 the size of yours, and as a result, I can design a car for a fraction of what you can, so I'm doing most of the work, and you are giving me most of the costs to do this (though you're financing me to do it, it's still cheaper than you can do yourself). Your role in this is to customize the car for your market, and we both produce this car for each of our markets.
There may be a version of this car that isn't feasible for you to make there, but where I am, my factory can make small quanities profitably, so I export to you this version of our car, or any other versions that doesn't have enough volume for you to produce profitably, so you buy them from me (for alot less than it would cost you to make your own).
I'm happy because I'm making more money than I could make in my small market alone, while you are happy because you not only get a new car line on the cheap, you also get a wide variety of high profile, modestly priced niche models that you would never be able to do on your own.
That's what the game plan is between GM-Holden & GM North America, in a nutshell.
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Are you guys absolutely sure that Hamtramck is going to get the low cost RWD platform?
By looking at how GM is shuffling products at their plants, it looks like to me that Orion will be the RWD plant.
Let me show you.
Hamtramck currently builds:
LeSabre
Seville
Deville
Bonneville
Orion currently builds:
Park Ave.
LeSabre
Aurora
Bonneville
According to GM's own production-per-plant report on their website, it looks like GM has moved production of the Bonneville from Orion to Hamtramck; the Aurora has been discontinued; and production of LeSabre at Orion could easily be moved to Hamtramck.
So currently, Orion only builds 2 models. The LeSabre & Park Ave.
It would make sense for GM to move LeSabre completely to Hamtramck, as they have with Bonneville. That would leave just Park Ave at Orion. A plant doesn't survive on one low volume car.
And isn't the Park Ave getting axed?
If the Park Ave gets axed, Orion will have no product.
And look at Hamtramck. They just got Bonneville. And Seville will be moving to Lansing Grand River. The fate of Deville is still anyone's guess.
I still think Orion is going to be the plant for the new low cost volume RWD platform. Of course I have nothing to base this on except the shuffling of cars at the plants.
If anyone has concrete evidence to the contrary of my theory, please post it. I would like to be enlightened.
By looking at how GM is shuffling products at their plants, it looks like to me that Orion will be the RWD plant.
Let me show you.
Hamtramck currently builds:
LeSabre
Seville
Deville
Bonneville
Orion currently builds:
Park Ave.
LeSabre
Aurora
Bonneville
According to GM's own production-per-plant report on their website, it looks like GM has moved production of the Bonneville from Orion to Hamtramck; the Aurora has been discontinued; and production of LeSabre at Orion could easily be moved to Hamtramck.
So currently, Orion only builds 2 models. The LeSabre & Park Ave.
It would make sense for GM to move LeSabre completely to Hamtramck, as they have with Bonneville. That would leave just Park Ave at Orion. A plant doesn't survive on one low volume car.
And isn't the Park Ave getting axed?
If the Park Ave gets axed, Orion will have no product.
And look at Hamtramck. They just got Bonneville. And Seville will be moving to Lansing Grand River. The fate of Deville is still anyone's guess.
I still think Orion is going to be the plant for the new low cost volume RWD platform. Of course I have nothing to base this on except the shuffling of cars at the plants.
If anyone has concrete evidence to the contrary of my theory, please post it. I would like to be enlightened.
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This is where deduction has to come into play.
1. Bonneville is a lame duck car. It's due to be discontinued after the 2005-2006 model year.
2. Cadillac's Seville will be discontinued next year & replaced by the STS, which will be made at Cadillac's facility in Delta Township.
3. As pointed out, the Aurora either has been, or will shortly be discontinued.
4. The Buick LeSabre as is will be discontinued after the 2005-2006 model year, and replaced with a new model.
5. Cadillac Deville is due to be reskinned or replaced (most likely the latter). If replaced, it will go on the Sigma & will be moved to Delta Township. If it stays on the big FWD chassis, it will be the only car left, assuming Buick chooses to share (not likely), it will likely be moved to a smaller facility, or even if kept at Hamtramck, will leave the plant massively underutilized.
6. The Park Avenue is due to be discontinued completely and replaced with a RWD model in the 2007 model year.
Orion is going to build the new Pontiac Grand Ams, and everything that was built there is going to move to other places, if it already hasn't. http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...02/148473.html
What that leaves is Delta Township building Sigma based Cadillacs, Orion building Pontiac Grand Ams, and Detroit Hamtramck almost completly empty by the begining of 2006. There has been no layoff announcements, and there has been no transfer plans established at that plant, and all GM's full sized front wheel drive cars (with the remote possible exception of Cadillac's DeVille) gone.
Need I say more?
1. Bonneville is a lame duck car. It's due to be discontinued after the 2005-2006 model year.
2. Cadillac's Seville will be discontinued next year & replaced by the STS, which will be made at Cadillac's facility in Delta Township.
3. As pointed out, the Aurora either has been, or will shortly be discontinued.
4. The Buick LeSabre as is will be discontinued after the 2005-2006 model year, and replaced with a new model.
5. Cadillac Deville is due to be reskinned or replaced (most likely the latter). If replaced, it will go on the Sigma & will be moved to Delta Township. If it stays on the big FWD chassis, it will be the only car left, assuming Buick chooses to share (not likely), it will likely be moved to a smaller facility, or even if kept at Hamtramck, will leave the plant massively underutilized.
6. The Park Avenue is due to be discontinued completely and replaced with a RWD model in the 2007 model year.
Orion is going to build the new Pontiac Grand Ams, and everything that was built there is going to move to other places, if it already hasn't. http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...02/148473.html
What that leaves is Delta Township building Sigma based Cadillacs, Orion building Pontiac Grand Ams, and Detroit Hamtramck almost completly empty by the begining of 2006. There has been no layoff announcements, and there has been no transfer plans established at that plant, and all GM's full sized front wheel drive cars (with the remote possible exception of Cadillac's DeVille) gone.
Need I say more?
Last edited by guionM; Aug 7, 2003 at 08:29 PM.
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guion,
Thanks for the added info. I see now that I was missing a piece of the puzzle (the GA piece).
But, in my defense, looking at GM's website, it sure looks they are moving product out of Orion and loading Hamtramck up.
So one could see how I would come to this conclusion.
That brings me to my next questions.
If Grand Am replacement is moving to Orion and Alero is going bye-bye, what's going into Lansing South?
Delta Township building Sigma? According to GM's site, Lansing Grand River is the Sigma plant. The site didn't even list Delta Township on there. Is it a new plant scheduled to come on-line in the next few years and if so, what are they going to build?
Thanks for the added info. I see now that I was missing a piece of the puzzle (the GA piece).
But, in my defense, looking at GM's website, it sure looks they are moving product out of Orion and loading Hamtramck up.
So one could see how I would come to this conclusion.
That brings me to my next questions.
If Grand Am replacement is moving to Orion and Alero is going bye-bye, what's going into Lansing South?
Delta Township building Sigma? According to GM's site, Lansing Grand River is the Sigma plant. The site didn't even list Delta Township on there. Is it a new plant scheduled to come on-line in the next few years and if so, what are they going to build?
Last edited by HuJass; Aug 8, 2003 at 09:01 PM.
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From: Central Cal.
I have a cousin who manages a GM dealership in Texas and he told me they will be recieving the 2004 GTO's on or about December. Here is a web site that promotes it.http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/gto/launch/
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LOL.. the VW vortex crowd are in a frenzy over Holdens and Pontiacs (can you believe it 
) - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=972291
) - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=972291
Last edited by Ude-lose; Aug 8, 2003 at 10:45 PM.
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Not sure about Lansing South. I'll have to look it up to be sure, but I seem to remember Malibu being built there. I'd have to look again.
As for being 100% sure about Detroit-Hamtramck, no can't be 100%. But, unless there's something being missed (perhaps an SUV line or another underutilized plant I missed) you could say it qualifies as "beyond reasonable doubt".
As for being 100% sure about Detroit-Hamtramck, no can't be 100%. But, unless there's something being missed (perhaps an SUV line or another underutilized plant I missed) you could say it qualifies as "beyond reasonable doubt".
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From: CNY
Originally posted by guionM
Not sure about Lansing South. I'll have to look it up to be sure, but I seem to remember Malibu being built there. I'd have to look again.
As for being 100% sure about Detroit-Hamtramck, no can't be 100%. But, unless there's something being missed (perhaps an SUV line or another underutilized plant I missed) you could say it qualifies as "beyond reasonable doubt".
Not sure about Lansing South. I'll have to look it up to be sure, but I seem to remember Malibu being built there. I'd have to look again.
As for being 100% sure about Detroit-Hamtramck, no can't be 100%. But, unless there's something being missed (perhaps an SUV line or another underutilized plant I missed) you could say it qualifies as "beyond reasonable doubt".
The Grand Am and the Alero are built at Lansing South.
The new Malibu is built at Fairfax.
