Z284ever

I seem to read all sorts of ideas of what the GTO Judge was....either true or erroneous.

Let's see how this turns out.

Jason96T/A

I thought "The Judge" was just a styling package; wheels, decals, wing, and stripes (Ironic, ain't it). The GTO options didn't really change aside from that...

Z284ever

True, the Judge had decals and a wing. The wheels were the same as GTO, but were not available with trim rings. It was originally concieved by John Delorean as a basic stripper GTO type car that could be priced with the lower cost Plymouth Road Runner.
It was to be called Tempest T37. The story goes that Delorean was watching the "Laugh In" TV show and saw the "Here Come Da Judge" bit. He thought that Judge might be a snappier name than T37.

As it turned out....Judge did end up becoming a limited production styling package. Most were heavily optioned, negating their lower base price (as were Road Runners by that time).

All GTO powertrain options were available on the Judge. The Judge was no faster or slower than any other GTO.

So if SLP does a Judge off the new GTO....if they want to be historically correct....they'll charge less for it than the standard GTO.

IZ28

That'll happen.

HuJass

Pontiac wanted a lower priced GTO to compete with the Road Runner. What came from that project was dubbed the "ET". It was a post coupe with NO options. Delorean saw it and didn't like it. Too sparse. He began to add this and change that and pretty soon it became "The Judge".

Darth Xed

I can tell you this... no matter what The Judge was in reality in the past... if it comes back, it'd be the top-of-the-line fully optioned version of the car.

guionM

The Judge was a direct answer to cheap Plymouth Road Runner.

GTO was a relatively expensive car in the 1960s. Chrysler (legend has it, as a result of a letter from then automotive writer, Brock Yates) created a "budget" muscle car via Plymouth and leased the name Road Runner from the then very popular cartoon from Warner Brothers. Road Runner proceeded to knock GTO off it's sales pedestal, and pretty much maintained it's position till Chevrolet's Chevelle SS (in both 350 & 396 guise) took the position, and held it till muscle cars died out, (debatably) after the 1973 model year.

The "Judge" was concieved as a budget version of the GTO (which is why it's so funny to me every time someone here refers to the Judge as some type of ultimate GTO, which it wasn't). However, even though it was concieved as a budget GTO, in the end, it also turned out to be pretty costly as well. It's loud colors and decals (the "Judge" name came from a tag-line from the TV show, "Laugh-In") made it pretty popular in the psychedelic late 60s.

In '74, GTO went to a compact chassis, and in 1976 Road Runner followed suit (as a Volare), but by then, GTO was history. The Road Runner finally died out in 1980.



In case anyone's curious about how things may have turned out if GTO continued till the late 70s:

1980 Volare Road Runner SuperCoupe:
360 4 barrel V8 185hp/275 torque: 0-60: 7.3; 1/4m: 15.9@88mph; TS:111mph

1974 Ventura GTO:
350 4 barrel V8 200hp/295 torque: 0-60: 7.7; 1/4m: 15.7@88mph; TS around 105 mph

By comparason, the 73 Z28 did 7.5 to 60, a 15.2/95mph quarter, and about 120 top speed

bigsteve7

When it comes to selling cars, perception is more important than history. Thats why this Judge will cost more, SS Camaros are regarded as the highest model etc.

The general public, even if they dont know what a GTO is wil hear that theres a model called the judge and right away assume that its the top of the line "ultimate GTO."

Regardless of history, I thikn Pontiac should capitalize on this.

99SilverSS

Well the Judge may hve been "intended" for a sripped GTO what it was in reality was more like a fully optioned loaded GTO. How many Judges's were sold with less options than the reg GTO??
TO me while it's very close to the relationship between the Formula and Trans Am. Neither is faster or handle better but the T/A has more ammentities. The Judge while maybe designed to be to Formula of this comparo bacame the T/A!

Z284ever

I wonder if SLP does a Judge, what wiil it cost.

Lemme see. Some decals, some floor mats, some sort of hood. Whatya think......$5 grand?

Darth Xed

Ya, no kidding.

guionM

You work for those guys, don't you?

GOATCRAZY

O.K. Here's the true history of the Judge...Some parts previously mentioned are correct, but here's the whole story...


The John DeLorean wanted to make a "budget" high performance car to compete with the models offered by dodge & Plymouth. But, by the time that the stripes, wing, and engine options were added, the base price ended up being more expensive than the base GTO price.

The original concept for the new model was the "E.T." which stood for elapsed time...But DeLorean saw the Laugh-In show and decided that "The Judge" was a lot more catchy (Thank God).

First offered in 1969, the standard judge package was the rear wing, body stripes, and the optional ram-air III engine package. [Included 366 HP (underrated) 400 CID engine, reduced-flow exaust, and functional cold-air induction system]. The standard GTO engine was a 350 HP 400 CID engine and stock exaust, no ram-air.
The top drivetrain package was the ram-air IV engine, which included the 370 HP (VERY underrated) 400 CID engine w/high-lift cam, aluminum intake, round-port headers, free-flow exhaust, 4-speed close-ratio muncie tranny, and 3:73 posi rear end.

It is true that the drivetrain options that the Judge used were available on any GTO, but the Judge offered everything in a complete package. And offered the "pop" look that the youth were demanding during that era....

-Just a quick history tidbit...

Z28Wilson

So in essence a "Top-of-the-line" new Judge model may not be all that out-of-line with its history, if it isn't the only GTO available with the LS6 or something (though that will probably be the case.)

Man for some reason that part gave me goose bumps.

guionM

6 seconds to 60mph, mid 14 quarter in the upper 90s, top speed of roughly 125 isn't too exciting today.

Acceleration will drop to upper 5s to 60 and mid 100 in the quarter with the 3.93 axle, but top speed will drop to about 118 to 120, so there's a trade off.

In case there's doubt:
http://www.ultimategto.com/art29-69.htm
http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicl...to/69GTO.frame
http://www.vorhese.com/pontiacgto/gpics.htm