I know there are some folks on this board that are pretty good at forecasting gm's immediate future, and I'd like to peer into that crystal ball for a moment.

I was on GM's site and they appear to be developing new hybrid technology, and refining the typical gasoline engine. We can see evidence of that today, in the new VVT engines and city busses. Next year, GM will have some modest hybrid technology on some of their big SUVs, is this just the beginning? From what I've read the "hybrid" technology available next year recovers energy that would be otherwise lost as heat during breaking. (that sounds so familiar from intro. to Physics my freshman year in college) The system sounds better integrated than the Toyota hybrids on the road today.

Lately, I've heard a lot of journalists and "analysts" blast GM for having no longterm plans for their current financial woes, but it seems to me that GM has done a lot of work, and is doing a lot of work to keep on the edge of future vehicles.

Anyway, your thoughts?

 

Take that JD Powers! It used to mean a trip to the dealer, but now, breaking means better fuel economy!

 

LOL, I guess I meant braking, not "breaking." 'course if your car was breaking all the time I guess you would save on fuel.

 

Off topic but... it disappoints me that Toyota gains the high ground in hybrid technology when GM pioneered alternative energy vehicles with the Impulse. The fact that the Prius is a true hybrid is beside the point, Toyota have won the mindset battle for those contemplating hybrid vehicle technology... even though Honda's Insight was first onto the market.

GM should really make the point that they have the technology, resources and results to better Toyota. Maybe a marketing campaign to show the world that Americans can achieve anything when they set their sights high... maybe GM could align themselves with famous companies like Boeing, McDonnell Douglas etc... just to reassure consumers who've given up on the 'American automobile' that GM has the history/capacity to exceed the standards set by their Japanese rivals on technology/efficiency front?

How about a campaign boasting about American (GM) Know-how?

 

some good stuff here.

GM is going about the Hybrid technology from the other end.....meaning that while the foreign brands started with small cars and are moving up, GM has started at the top......where there's a bigger impact for the world, if you will......by offering Busses first...then Pickups...(This is the second year for the Silverado Hybrid) and now onto Large SUVs.........you will continue to see various forms of Hybrid technology offered throughout the GM portfolio in various sizes of cars and trucks.

Further, GM is a leader in E85 vehicles......and you will be hearing more about that in the next 60 to 90 days. (you'd be surprised at the number of GM vehicles on the road...right now...and some that have been out there for a couple of years......that are already E85 compatible...no mods necessary...just fuel 'er up!)

Finally, GM is the leader in fuel economy across the board...segment by segment. The foreign manufacturers can brag about the CAFE number, but if you look at what they offer, they suddenly don't look so good.

(one look at the LSx engines is all it takes.....)


Don't count GM out just yet.

One last thought (call it a rant....) did you ever notice how many experts are out there that have NEVER run a business?????

 

Trucks and SUVs certainly make up a large portion of the vehicles GM sells right?? (I'm sure someone knows the actual #? ). It's great seeing them add hybrid technology to them, and it's gotta be great for sales to say "best in class fuel ecomony ..... and power too".

I'm not sure if they've got plans for it (or if it's already happened and I'm not aware?? ) but I'd say the next cars to get DoD and a hybrid setup should be the larger sedans like the Impalas and Grand Prix? Although really, if these systems can be incorporated into the vehicles without too much hassle, it's something that should be showing up on just about EVERY vehicle in their line-up? Well, I'd say it should at least be AVAILABLE on most cars, and especially those which are the high volume sales cars - SUVs, popular sedans, and even MINI VANS! (with their "terrific" aerodynamics and lead footed soccer moms behind the wheel, I'm sure they could use some help to get better mileage?).

BTW, what's the "CAFE number" you mentioned? I've never heard that term before?

 

I'm still not convinced that GM understands the hybrid buyer. I mean, it's a good thing (maybe even better for the planet) if a large number of thirsty vehicles like trucks are hybrids. But your average hybrid buyer is going for image just as much as anything else. A big hybrid car or truck doesn't say "look how green I am, don't you feel guilty?" Hell, a conventional looking car doesn't even say it strong enough, seeing as the Prius blows away the Civic Hybrid in sales (note that the new civic hybrid actually looks much different than the regular civic).

Then, you've got people who want it just based on the advanced technology. These are people going for the Prius, but also the new "high performance" hybrids like the RX400H and such.

But truck buyers? Unless the numbers work out and it saves money, I just can't see them biting in large numbers.

I'd still like to see more hybrid cars, diesel cars, and cars powered by that efficient small block V8.

 

I think the problem with the "hybrid" Sierra is that, let's face it, it's not what most people think of as a hybrid. Pretty much its only trick is allowing the engine to shut off and restart at a stoplight. Until it's able to recapture significant amounts of energy and then use it to propel the vehicle (like the Toyotas and Hondas), there's not much to justify its $5k premium nor justify calling it a hybrid.

Even GM's next generation BAS hybrid on the Vue/Malibu suffers pretty much the same limitations, even though it's hitting the market about 8 years after the Japanese first marketed full hybrids.

Sorry to say it, but when it comes to the consumer hybrid market, once again GM is offering up 'too little, too late'. When's GM going to offer a hybrid that's at least as technologically advanced as the Japanese?

I guess I have to wonder what your definition is of "across the board...segment by segment". A look through http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ shows that only one GM-designed vehicle leads its class (the full-size vans). Granted they don't break down the classes very fine and they lump gasoline, hybrids, and Diesels all together, but still, it's hard to make the case for GM being the fuel economy leader if they can't lead any major categories.

Also, there's not a single GM-designed vehicle on the list of the 10 most fuel efficient cars. Not even the tiny Aveo makes the list, outscored by bigger cars such as the Corolla.

 

R377 makes a good point about the 'hybrid' pickups. They aren't really hybrids they are trucks with converters built in for contractors and that is all. They would be great to have on a distant job site instead of having a separate generator but that is all.

They do have the 2 mode hybrid system coming which will be in all GMT900s, hopefully production will be very high. I could also see Caddy getting a 2 mode hybrid system. I think BAS will become standard fare within 5 years on GM cars and trucks since basically it is just a more advanced alternator that offers some hybrid benefits. It can't cost that much more and could have a lot of potential benefits, especially on a large scale like GMs entire lineup.

BTW I think that GM just made the wrong decision in the eyes of the public by going on the large size and getting the larger benefit for the enviroment instead of going with the small vehicles first and getting the PR benefit. Lets face it they took a gamble and it didn't pay off. Don't repeat this mistake again GM you really can't afford it.

 

The notion of hybrid technology being the be-all end-all of a cleaner future is really a debatable subject. I believe Toyota have waged a good war on the hybrid front... The fact that GM have engines that run on E85 is an advantage in itself. I suspect if Toyota managed to enter the hybrid truck market, they would do very well, even if the advantage to the environment is insignificant compared to what GM are able to achieve with their alternative energy vehicles.

 

While we aren't talking thousands of dollars per vehicle, it does cost more than you think. There are a few extra hoses/pumps in the cooling system, as well as the battery.

 

Interesting and good to hear since my Wife's aging 98 Malibu needs to be replaced soon. I'd like to buy either a gasolene/electric hybrid or preferably, a diesel (heck why not a diesel/electric hybrid!!) that can run diesel / bio-diesel and ideally, be modifed to run on grease too like the VW TDI cars (I can get an inside line on a supply of premo waste cooking oil).

Where does GM advertise the fact e85 can be used in some of it's exsiting vehicles.. are these exclusively trucks or are we talking cars too? Oh and which ones? Seems to me GM's ads should make a bigger deal of stuff like e85 compatibility where applicable!

It's frustrating that GM doesn't offer anything fitting my want description right now... how much longer until we get a mid-sized sedan from GM that fits the above bill? I want to stick with American, but currently... imports are the only option for diesel and hybrid cars. Ford are no better... the only thing they have is the Escape small SUV which is of no interest to us; I would rather not buy from Chrysler if I can help it.

Edit: what is this BAS hybrid R377 mentioned. Is this similar to what Honda offers? I wasn't ware of any hybrid capability in the VUE or Malibu until just now... If it's available on current models... GM should be pointing it out - I've not seen any mention of hybrid technology in GMs TV commercials for the VUE.

 

BAS is the Belt Alternator hybrid System. Basically instead of a new hybrid motor you use a larger alternator and you put in a bigger battery. This is a small power electric motor BUT it will cost majorly less AND put a small bit of help to GMs engines. it could be used on all engines with little to no modification.

 

Not true, it takes a bit of modification.

I repeat, it isn't as easy as you think it is...

 

One cool thing about the BAS is that it also eliminates the starter motor. The upgraded alternator/motor handles starting and charging. I believe the BAS actually stands for Belt Alternator Starter, not Belt Alternator hybrid System.

The electric motor starts the car when you first fire it up, and also when the engine is shut down when the vehicle is stopped.

R377, as for fuel economy, I don't know how fueleconomy.gov breaks down the categories. But in many segments, GM does lead. Pulling some from memory (hopefully correctly):

Full size pickups: Silverado/Sierra lead (at least with V8s, which is probably 98% of the full size market).
Full size vans.
Full size SUVs (Tahoe/Yukon), unless you stretch and call the Pilot a full size, and even then it isn't a huge advantage.
GM's compact cars are in the 35 mpg range, which is not quite up to the 38-40 mpg (hwy) range of the Civic and Corolla. But the midsize/full size cars are typically better. Malibu V6 > Accord V6 and Camry V6. So is the Impala.
I think the Colorado/Canyon are at or near the top of their segment, too.

They don't lead in every segment, but they lead in quite a few.