I often wonder how much more credibility GM would have if they were once again a technology leader instead of a distant follower. In an industry where perception is everything, it's no wonder Toyota is gaining momentum while GM is stagnant. Specifically, why are GM still offering 4 spd autos when their competitors are out there with a minimum of 6 spd, irrespective of whether the product be a car or truck?

I understand that there is nothing particularly wrong with the GM 4 spd but that is beside the point. It's about keeping pace or leading. Consider the point from the angle of the buyer. Would you think you are being duped when the dark side is offering 'more'?

While my argument is about technology in general (diesels, hybrids, etc...) it doesn't center on just transmissions, it's an obvious oversight considering GM is now supposedly a company with "gotta have" products. IMO, "gotta have" products are those brimming with new technology. These products sell themselves! These products also tap into a niche market that GM has ignored for decades. I've read pieces about Cadillac being the standard of the world but???

Anyway, it's my belief that GM are battling to retain existing customers (that includes generations grown up on GM) rather than pursuing savvy new generations where they are losing out and the main reason is their neglect in leading the way from a technology standpoint.

Your opinions, please?

 

GM does offer 6 speed automatics on many of its cars and trucks. The problem is you can't change every model to the new transmission overnight. It will take a few years. They started with the high end cars like Cadillacs and Corvettes and are now doing most Saturns and the 2008 Malibu, Pontiac G8 and basically any car or truck with a 3.6L V6

GM does a lot of cutting edge tech. Remember Hydroframe, DoD/AFM, run flat tires, XM, nightvision, magnetic shocks, hybrid Bus, etc....

 

You mention they lag in technology, but only give one example of 6 speed versus 4 speed auto's?

Maybe your question should have been more pointed to transmissions(which I think GM has some of the best of). Saying they are technology laggers in general is ridiculous.

Dan

 

Simple answer is they were short on money so they extended a bunch older stuff (W body, 4sp autos, pushrod V6s) a lot longer than they should have.

 

The V6 AND 4.7 V8 Tunrda have 5 speed autos, same w/ the Camry and Avalon. The Corolla and Matrix use a 4 speed auto/5 speed stick. As does the Yaris. All of Toyota's SUVs use 5 speed autos (except for the base Highlander). I verified all this w/ Toyota's website in case you were wondering.

So hmm...GM offers 6 speed autos in the Aura & G6 (also NG Malibu) whereas NONE of Toyota's cars use them. GM offers 4 speed autos with better gas mileage than Toyota's trucks w/ either their 5 speed or 6 speed powertrains (thanks to their AFM technology). The Theta SUVs use 5 speed autos (on the base 3.5 V6 and 6 speeds on the 3.6 versions) and the Lambda crossovers have 3.6/6 speed powertrains.

So you think things like Nav should be standard more? Is that they type of tech you are suggesting? GM will have Onstar standard by 2010 on EVERY model as well as electronic stability control!

Well you did ask for my opinion so you got it: You don't know much about the tech. You are ill-informed and are following the public trend/perception of saying GM is behind without checking the facts.

GM hasn't been loosing marketshare b/c of less 'tech' and gadgets than competitors. They have been losing marketshare b/c they didn't invest and engineer to make "BEST in class products". They also didn't up date chassis lines often enough and let things run for to long (the W-body is a PRIME example).

Remember you asked for our opinions.

 

Navigation is a great example of GM still thinking they control the market. According to GM, Nav is a luxury feature only available in Cadillacs, and maybe in 5-10 years you can get it in Chevy. Nevermind that you can get nav in a Honda Civic or Ford Fusion.

 

Exactly my point.

People sure are getting defensive here which is puzzling considering I'm a GM supporter... I'd say this topic wouldn't be aimed at the defensive mob, more the open minded.

I'm not bashing GM just being err, 'self critical'. I realise GM already produce 6-spd autos. It's not what technology GM offers but what it doesn't offer across some products that would put some customers off, IMO. Again, it's about perception relating to technology. Most customers wouldn't care too much about Cadillac having Nav when the Honda Civic already has it. We're talking a customer's overall perception of the GM brand.

If you say "BMW" you know the marque is about leading edge technology, excellent driving dynamics and ergonomics. Similarly, Lexus is about leading edge technology and quality. Honda about fuel efficient, hi-tech engines, transmissions and interior quality etc...

Again peoples, why don't GM lead the way for a change?

 

I think that GM has almost always been on par or better technologically...

I don't see how one can make the arguement that GM is behind because they have used lots of 4 speed autos and they don't have Navigation in everything...

Who cares how many gears the trans has anyways? the important thing is the powerband, the shift points, and the final drive ratio, right?

I can see the arguement for SatNav, I suppose.

but... just off the top of my head... GM technology...

The Northstar motors had something like 90 patents on them when they came out... how many cars were around in the early 1990s that could go for 50 miles with no coolant?

How many other manufacturers have a successful OnStar style program? How long has GM had that? IIRC, the only manufacturers that offer a similar system are RUN by onstar under a different name...

Magnetic Ride Control ring any bells? GM was the first to mass produce a suspension system that makes 100 measurements every second so that by the time your wheel is over a pothole, the viscosity of the magnetically charged fluid has already been adjusted to compensate...

I can't think of a manufacturer who has offered a Heads Up Display on as many cars as GM has...

Ever heard of the Gen III/IV Smallblock? They get pretty impressive gas mileage considering the amount of power they make...

The only area where GM consistantly tends to fall significantly short compared to its competitors has been fit and finish, especially with interiors, and they've been closing the gap on that one lately...

 

The Camry V6 has a 6 speed automatic.

That said, I think GM is doing pretty well. The problem with transmissions right now is that they mostly skipped the 5-speed generation and are going to 6 speeds. The GM 5 speed automatics were never made in large volume, but the 6 speeds will be. I think we just need to be patient and wait for the production lines to get up to speed.

The other issue is that Toyota has brought DI to their high volume V6 and Tundra V8 engines. That puts them ahead of nearly everyone else (Volkswagen has it too). Until others catch up, Toyota will have a performance/fuel economy advantage in V6s and V8s. Cadillac will catch up to Lexus in V6s this year.

 

You raise very good points there. Hey nobody is a fan of GM's V8s more than yours truly. And the number of gears a trans has, really doesn't mean much in the practical sense! Yes I agree with you.

Most GM innovations tend to be optional extras on Cadillacs. MRC is a 'luxury' item on Corvette and people tend to associate big pot GM V8s with high fuel consumption, which is plain WRONG. But I get back to the word, 'perception'.

What I refer to is the more basic 'technologies' that are often introduced by Toyota/Honda that happen to catch GM napping. With all the work that GM putting into hybrids, why is it that Toyota (Prius) is seen as the hybrid leader? Why is it that women in particular love Honda interiors? Yes, that word again, perception.

Most consumers wouldn't really know about the technologies that GM has developed in recent years and those it's known for having patented. That's probably because GM aren't leading the way anymore... in the ways that matter to most consumers.

Maybe I'm posing this question on the wrong forum as we're all GM enthusiasts here?

 

No, I think it's the right question -- the person buying a family sedan doesn't care about Pickups/Corvettes/Cadillacs, and they don't care about production schedules, they only care about what's in the car on the lot. GM needs to realize they don't lead the sedan market anymore (more like #3) and they need to be proactive and meet or exceed the other guy's product in every way. Right now, GM's sedan lineup isn't a perception problem, it's a reality problem.

Looking at GM's upcoming products, they seem to be catching on finally. But IMO they are still lagging with their 4 cylinders (which are the bulk of their competitor's sedan sales).

 

Maybe instead of just saying GM is behind in technology you should say where it is behind. I will give you Nav systems, and like we have heard from Scott there are reasons for this. But really what else? DI, well Toyota has a DI V6 out but Izusu had a DI 3.5 about 5 years ago.

I just don't really see where GM is behin on tech. Maybe if you pointed out where then we could all see instead of just making the blanket statement it would be easier.

 

You can also get MRC in a some Cadillacs, I believe, and it's true, most of the examples of GM high tech goodies are only on the fancier models... but where else would you expect to see it? The average Cobalt buyer isn't interested in paying for active cruise control, after all...

It seems to me that you are basing manufacturer tech level on availability of hybrids, in which case, YES, GM is behind.

Hopefully GM doesn't get beaten to the punch on Hydrogen fuel cells.

 

As far as the GM 6 speed goes... GM sells well over 1 MILLION trucks and SUV's each year. Toyota... a couple hundred thousand....

Did GM screw up? Yeah, but they NEEDED to get the trucks and SUV's out when they did, knowing the production capacity of the 6 speed wasn't there yet. So, we wait. Even with the 4 speed, sales have been good, especially with high gas prices.... so go figure

What about the Volt and the Sequel?

 

Check out the ChallengeX competition, that they and the DOE are the two biggest supporters/funders of it. They are much more involved in hybrid technology than you think.

www.challengex.org



No one is defensive, they are arguing counterpoints.

I'm not a buisness major, but it would appear to me that it would be hard to "lead the way" when they have quarter after quarter of losses, even after numerous plant shutdowns/layoffs/etc.

You are only seeing what you want to see.