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GM skids to 18-year low

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Old Dec 20, 2005 | 05:33 PM
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GM skids to 18-year low

Not good....

Could anyone imagine GM and Ford merging within the next 10 years? or maybe Toyota buying Ford?

http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/20/news...reut/index.htm

GM skids to 18-year low

Shares tank as production plans from rival Toyota threaten to boot General Motors into second place.

December 20, 2005: 3:41 PM EST

DETROIT (Reuters) - Shares of General Motors Corp. fell to an 18-year low Tuesday after Toyota Motor Corp. unveiled production plans for 2006, increasing fears that GM will be toppled by its Japanese rival as the world's largest automaker.

Toyota said it plans to make a record 9.06 million cars in 2006, just shy of the 9.15 million cars and trucks that some analysts expect GM to build next year.

Shares of General Motors (down $0.85 to $20.20, Research) slumped by 4.8 percent in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange. The stock fell more than 5 percent to $19.63 earlier in the day -- its lowest point since 1987, after being adjusted for its spin-off of Delphi Corp. in 1999.


Shares have plunged nearly 50 percent this year.

GM does not provide sales or production forecasts on an annual basis, but some analysts said the current trend points to GM's inevitable tumble to second place for the first time in 70 years.

"Toyota will probably be the largest producer in the world at the end of 2006," said Richard Hilgert, auto analyst at Fitch Ratings, citing GM's slumping sales of large sport utility vehicles in the fuel-conscious market.

Burnham Securities analyst David Healy expects GM to produce 9.15 million vehicles in 2006, and expects Toyota to surpass GM as the world's largest automaker in 2007.

Toyota (Research)'s production increase of 10 percent comes at a time when GM is shrinking capacity by slashing 30,000 jobs and closing 12 facilities in North America.

The automaker has lost nearly $4 billion this year as it struggles with high health-care and commodities costs, loss of U.S. market share to foreign rivals and sinking sales of large SUVs, its long-time profit generators.

"Investors are reacting to the Toyota figures," Argus Research analyst Kevin Tynan said. "Although it shouldn't be any great surprise. ... We've been saying for a while that at the current pace, Toyota will surpass GM next year."

Tynan said at current gas prices the Japanese automaker would overtake GM by the end of 2006.

Tynan also said many investors may be cutting losses at the end of year to offset gains made in 2005.

To make matters worse at GM, a strike at bankrupt Delphi could shut down plants and force the automaker to burn through billions of dollars a week, analysts say.

GM is said to be considering offering Delphi workers buyout packages, which would add to the automaker's obligation of up to $12 billion to former employees who were sent to Delphi after the spin-off.

But analysts say they would rather see GM pay for buyouts instead of facing a strike.

As part of its broader restructuring efforts, GM also negotiated a deal with its union that would save it $1 billion a year in health-care costs.

Analysts have said the cost-cutting efforts are not enough to turn things around at the auto giant until it starts regaining market share.

GM has also said it plans to sell a controlling stake in its General Motors Acceptance Corp. finance arm to restore investment-grade rating to the unit. But analysts have said a sale is not imminent.

"GMAC is definitely not going to be sold in 2005. So there's certainly going to be no news headline pop into the rest of this year. That's another reason investors are selling."

Last edited by johnsocal; Dec 20, 2005 at 05:41 PM.
Old Dec 20, 2005 | 06:46 PM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

It's incredible. I just finished reading that shares were below $20.

All this talk about GM being the #2 auto manufacturer though...I think it's more important that they make a sustainable profit. That has to be the focus...all other things are secondary.
Old Dec 20, 2005 | 09:36 PM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Originally Posted by Joe K. 96 Zeee!!
It's incredible. I just finished reading that shares were below $20.

All this talk about GM being the #2 auto manufacturer though...I think it's more important that they make a sustainable profit. That has to be the focus...all other things are secondary.
If GM needs to become #2 so it can become profitable again and be able to survive in the long run, then Im all for it. Sometimes you need to take a few steps back now so you can take many steps forward in the future.

Last edited by johnsocal; Dec 20, 2005 at 09:49 PM.
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 07:35 AM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Kerkorian dumped 12 million shares last night in after-hour trading.

He had around a 9-10% stake in the company, and that reprsents a 2-3% dump off.

He took a $144 MILLION LOSS with this sell off. If he sold his entire stake right now, it would be roughly a $1 Billion loss.

This will probably throw the stock down even further today in panic selling.

Of course, he may be doing some of this for tax purposes, but it sure looks bad.
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 08:36 AM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

I'm treating this as a "buy" opportunity. Reduces the average cost quite nicely.

Call me "stupid" but I rather go down with the GM ship than bail out. I really believe they can ultimately turn it around.
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 09:31 AM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Originally Posted by Darth Xed
He took a $144 MILLION LOSS with this sell off. If he sold his entire stake right now, it would be roughly a $1 Billion loss.
That's a hell of a write-off!! I agree though...I wouldn't be surprised if it was at least partially for tax purposes though given the timing.
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 09:42 AM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Originally Posted by johnsocal
If GM needs to become #2 so it can become profitable again and be able to survive in the long run, then Im all for it. Sometimes you need to take a few steps back now so you can take many steps forward in the future.
I couldn't agree with you guys more. Better a profitable #2 than throwing wasted cash at staying #1.
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 10:29 AM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

I honestly think it would be best for our auto industry as a whole over the long run (maybe not for immediate results which is what everyone these days seems to focus on and may be part of the reason why we're in the position we are today) if we extended our roots to as many continents/countries as possible. With DC we already have roots to the german auto industry, now I see Ford doing well merging with the japanese auto industry (they seem like a good match for several reasons) and GM seems to be getting along quite well with the Koreans.

I know it sounds horrible to some of y'all, and in some ways it is sad, but in the age of the global economy, the best thing a large company can do for itself is anchor itself down to multiple countries, thus one country can act as a support for the other in times of need.
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 10:36 AM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Originally Posted by Threxx
I honestly think it would be best for our auto industry as a whole over the long run (maybe not for immediate results which is what everyone these days seems to focus on and may be part of the reason why we're in the position we are today) if we extended our roots to as many continents/countries as possible. With DC we already have roots to the german auto industry, now I see Ford doing well merging with the japanese auto industry (they seem like a good match for several reasons) and GM seems to be getting along quite well with the Koreans.

I know it sounds horrible to some of y'all, and in some ways it is sad, but in the age of the global economy, the best thing a large company can do for itself is anchor itself down to multiple countries, thus one country can act as a support for the other in times of need.
GM already sells cars in virtually every market in the world, I don't see how a merger/buyout with a foreign company would give them any more of an anchor?
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 01:24 PM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Originally Posted by poSSum
I'm treating this as a "buy" opportunity. Reduces the average cost quite nicely.
Yea - isn't that the same thing that everyone said when the stock dropped to $25/share earlier this year?

And speaking of that - did anyone who claimed that they'd buy up a bunch of stock if it "ever fell below $25" actually do that? Just curious.
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 01:42 PM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Heh... cost averaging can be addictive though if you get carried away with it. I cost averaged myself right into the grave with Palm some years back. Unfortunately I got sick of them and sold out and a year or so later had I still been with them I might have finally turned a profit.
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 01:49 PM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Originally Posted by poSSum
I'm treating this as a "buy" opportunity. Reduces the average cost quite nicely.

Call me "stupid" but I rather go down with the GM ship than bail out. I really believe they can ultimately turn it around.
The buy opportunity will come after they go Ch.11. I agree with you that they can ultimately turn it around, but I don't think GM has hit the bottom yet. If this was the bottom then why would Kerkorian dump 12 million shares?? He has loss some faith or knows more than your avg. investor. I'll load up once it is under $5 a share and hold until it is $50 around 2010 (I hope )


Originally Posted by Threxx
Heh... cost averaging can be addictive though if you get carried away with it. I cost averaged myself right into the grave with Palm some years back. Unfortunately I got sick of them and sold out and a year or so later had I still been with them I might have finally turned a profit.
I did the same thing with palm, finally got out with only a ~15% loss
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 02:00 PM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

The most recent projections I have heard have GM going down to $16, and even $14 before it bottoms out...
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 02:04 PM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Originally Posted by Darth Xed
The most recent projections I have heard have GM going down to $16, and even $14 before it bottoms out...
...and that is with no Ch.11

As the price gets lower I worry more about GM declaring bankruptcy.

Any word on if that are cutting that nice plump 10% dividend?
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 02:11 PM
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Re: GM skids to 18-year low

Originally Posted by Z28x
...and that is with no Ch.11

As the price gets lower I worry more about GM declaring bankruptcy.

Any word on if that are cutting that nice plump 10% dividend?

Ya, I'm sure those estimates are without a bankruptcy.

Haven't heard anything about them touchign the dividend...

I am wondering how the eventually cutting loose of GMAC will affect the stock too... I understand cutting GMAC free will help them, but it should hurt GM itself, being that GMAC is actually profitable.... I guess it'll depend on the selling price.



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