Route66Wanderer

In a free enterprise system, people are supposed to be smart enough to understand what they can afford and what they can’t and understand that an adjustable rate mortgage means that the rate will adjust.

The Federal government isn’t supposed to or even be able to control who private banks and mortgage lenders do or don’t give loans to. What they did have some ability to control and what Bush did try to control was Fanny and Fredie but those efforts were defeated by Congress.

Even if GWB had been out on the street making bad loans all on his own I don’t see why taxpayers should now be made to pay the mortgages of anybody else. Most of these people shouldn’t have ever bought a house because they weren’t ready to buy a house; the government stepping in and using tax dollars to prop them up doesn’t make them any more ready for home ownership.


Actually, while he wasn’t president yet, Obama was very vocal in his support for TARP, the various bailouts and making loans to the auto companies.

Coming out in favor of all the TARP and bailouts were one of the issues McCain and Obama agreed on. Many analysts think McCain could well done much better in the election had he opposed all that garbage instead of going along with it.


Loans get paid back. I haven’t seen any evidence that such will ever happen.

Caps94ZODG

GM or someone from GM if your reading this..If GM starts making Chinese made cars I am out of the game with you...I will wear the blue oval very proud..

I am the one in my family and friends that everyone goes to for car purchasing advice. I tell them to go domestic and to more the point I try to get them to buy GM...well I cant say I am a huge factor but I will more than no doubt make sure that Ford will be the way to go if there is a chinese GM car imported here..

I am getting real sick of made in China here in the U.S.

The United States is made in China now..that sickens me to no end..

Andrew R

I will not buy a "made in China" vehichle. I'm sick of our production shifting overseas and I'm doing everything in my power to buy american made products only. Sadly it's not the least bit easy.

The USA as we know it is a dead man walking.

El Duce

You don't know your history as much as you may think you do.

Silverado C-10

Same here. I WILL NOT buy a Chinese made GM product. If GM shipped ALL Camaro production to China today, I would NEVER buy one. The new 2010 Mustang looks SWEET! Anyway, just saying...

Actually, I'm sick of HAVING to buy Chinese made **** altogether.

When I was truck shopping back in the day for my used Silverado, I wouldn't even test drive one that's VIN started with a "3".

EDIT: I'd like to add that I don't have a problem with some components being made in China (complete engine and transmissions I would have a "problem with"), I fully understand we're in a world economy. What I'm against is a 100% Chinese vehicle being sold in the states as a GM product.

Caps94ZODG

my thoughts exactly..

SSbaby

Some parts in Falcon and Commodore are made in China (windscreens/glass, wheels etc...) so I don't know why a similar arrangement can't work in the USA.

Further, we've been getting some imported Korean cars for quite some time in Australia so perhaps the time has come where some imported cars (e.g. small cars that don't have much profit margin) can be sold under the GM umbrella for a profit.

As long as the 'core' vehicles continue to be made in the USA, I don't see the problem.

ProudPony

I have advocated for years that the typical consumer is a moron. The educated consumer is the exception... not the rule.
I agree with your theory 100% and I wish it were true, but sadly it isn't.

More details in the next statement...

MY PROBLEM is that the bank execs were PRESSURING and even FORCING their agents to make loans - risky or not. HONESTLY... tell me you have not received junk mail offering you $10,000 or more and "you are pre-approved... take that vacation, buy a car, remodel your home... just return this form in the pre-paid envelope". They were rated on the money they lent out, regardless of the risk. Several have now testified that they were even forced to make quotas. THAT indicates a willing and knowing desire to defeat the fundamentals of capitalism and basic common sense too. When execs at lending institutions are forcing their loanwriters to meet quotas by giving loans to whoever walks in the door. With the nut-cases we have in thepublic at-large today, you have to expect that there will be many who will jump on such offers knowing full-well they can't afford it.

Tommy Two-Toes will at least tell you that he's going to cut your legs off if you don't pay him by next Tuesday.

Again, I don't want to pay anyone's mortgage either. My understanding is that the government is allowing lenders to re-write the loan and extend the terms so that the payment is low enough for them to afford... up to 40 year notes in some cases. I have no problems with that - as long as the buyer is still making the payments.


Your points are 100% on. My point was he was not the president at that time, and the idea was not his.... no more. Some people seem to think he masterminded all these bailouts and has done it since taking office.


Much to my shagrin, I am agreeing with you again. I think Chrysler stands a decent chance of paying back the required loans in time, GM I give a 50/50 shot at right now. All the money for the banks... most of it is in some off-shore account funding some executive's island home in bermuda or the Caymens now... and it's gone.

ProudPony

Please axept this opportunity to edgumcate me.
I am very eeger to lurn what you know.

Z28Wilson

Yeah, but the latest I have heard about these "breaks" given to these people is that the loans are now configured so that the only amount they are paying on each month is the interest. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but if it is, you're not really doing these people any favors.

Ponykillr

There is a natural order and balance to things in this universe. We became the nation we are today due to our low labor costs and technological advancements in the 19th and 20th centuries. As foreign nations bought our products our wages went up along with the cost of our products.

As we move into the 21st century production levels in labor intense products has shifted to emerging markets where they now have the advantage of low cost labor. This is a natural progression, and nothing to be feared. As we and other foreign nations buy these products produced in emerging markets, their labor costs will increase; thus their products will become less of a deal to us.

Again the balance will shift from them to another and another country, raising the entire worlds living standard. This is why the US has moved from heavy production to high tech, financial higher education related services (legal/medical/R&D/engineering).

However Americans would rather digress to labor intense manufacturing rather than progress to higher level service. These services of course require more effort of the individual American and perhaps that is the problem.

Z28Wilson

I agree with you to a point. The U.S. will always need a healthy manufacturing base for a variety of reasons.

El Duce

It wasn't that I was completely disagreeing with you, but to further your knowledge some, all of this whole mess got started in 1999. This of course is inconvienent to a group of people who think this is only something that occured with in the last 8 years.

We had already learned this lesson after the Great Depression and rules were put into place to prevent it from happening again. In 1999, they felt differently and thought that we wouldn't repeat our previous mistake from 75 years earlier due to greater transperancy.

Read up on it here is you want to know more and layeth the smack down on anybody when this topic comes up again:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp

In fact, this Act was slowly dismantled all throughout the 90s until it's outright repeal in 1999. When people say that they yearn for the economies of 1990s, they need to realize that much of what we're paying for now is a result of those good times. It was the repeal of this act that allowed security based swap derivatives to be eventually excempted from SEC regulation and oversight.

Of note, Citibank combined with Travelers Group thanks to the repeal of this law giving up what we know today as CitiGroup. Travelers Group brought into the fold the ability of a commercial bank to underwrite insurance.


Just some food for thought for those out there who think this is all of the last guy's fault. This has been 15 years in the making and they should have tried to correct course when the gravity of the situation was discovered, but a certain goofy looking Congressman from Massachusetts played lead blocker for that.

Bearcat Steve

The banks made those loans because of the Community Reinvestment Act. The banks were told that they had to have a certain percentage of loans made in "depressed neighborhoods" or they would have their FDIC insurance pulled.

No FDIC Insurance = No Bank.

The Community Reinvestment Act was passed under Carter and greatly strenghtened and enforced under Clinton. "Dub" allowed the actions taken by the Clinton adminitration to continue.

Make no mistake about it. The government is 100% behind the housing mortgage crisis. Those in congress love to blame the banks since otherwise, they would have to fess up that it is their own fault.

Eric77TA

Primarily what killed off Yugo was the slightly more expensive, but considerably less awful Hyundai Excel. People bought that small cheap car. Look at Hyundai now!

Don't get me wrong, I do not want GM to import Chinese vehicles to the U.S. and would not buy one if they did. But outside car enthusiast circles, don't underestimate what people will sacrifice for cheap.