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This isn;t about future products, but I think it's big and affects Pontiac big time next year. As a Nascar fan, I realize that Pontiac lost a number of top teams this year, and the program was not the greatest, so I understand GM's reason for just suporting one car, but how is this going to affect Pontiac?

1. Will Pontiac sales fall, esp. the Grand Prix because of their absence in NASCAR...

2. Will this put Pontiac in better position to go up against BMW because we would never see BMW in nascar and a car of that quality (i'm talking the quality of BMW) shouldn't be in a "red-neck sport" of nascar but into the Grand Prix or endurance type sports car racing that BMW and Mercadies is into.

(btw, I'm not trying to affend anyone about the red neck comment, but thats the commen feeling here in New York, and I immagine around the world of those who do not follow Nascar.)

 

It seems to most popular drivers for GM (for me as a non-follower of the sport) are Chevy drivers, so I don't know if this will really have a big effect on GP sales. I'm sure GM feels confident enough in the GP that it could stand on its own anyways.

I also think you're right in your assessment though: getting out of NASCAR will surely help them mold Pontiac into a more upscale, "BMW" image.

 

I liked having Pontiac run in Nascar but wont really miss it. I stopped watching Nascar races a couple years ago. I dont really get how GP or Monte sales would benefit really from Nascar. I'm not about to buy a GP because it says Grand Prix on the front of Bobby Labonte's car because the stock car and Grand Prix itself have basically nothing in common whatsoever. Plus the Monte Carlo is ugly no matter what and something I wouldnt consider, maybe a 1987 Monte SS would be nice though.

 

NASCAR fans understand that there are basicly no similarities between the cars on the track and the one's at the dealer. If anyone is losing out on this deal it's the NASCAR corporation.

 

Its a logical move, will save GM racing program dollars. too.

The Pontiacs have been running the same Chevy based block for years, and the "pontiac" heads are nothing but rebadged Chevy-based units as well...so once they went to the common body templates this year the only thing pontiac at all was the nose and rear bumper. And especially with Gibbs switching to Chevy there are no top tier teams running Pontiacs anymore in Cup...and with a true 3rd manufacturer/competitor now in Dodge, I think it was the right time to pull Pontiac out of it

 

A little off topic, but when is Toyota set to come in??

 

Pontiac should campaign the GTO next year. After dropping the 2dr GP. After all the GTO although not produced here is actually closer in function than any other car in NASCAR now. V8 RWD Coupe. Ford and Dodge use FWD V6 sedans. Chevy uses a FWD V6 coupe.

The cars used in NASCAR and the technology used is a joke!

 

I don't think dropping the Grand Prix from NASCAR will affect Pontiac sales. The Monte Carlo appeals more to NASCAR fans anyway, look at the pace car replica packages. You don't see those offered for Grand Prixs, Intrepids or Tauruses.

 

Pontiac sold 15,552 Grand Prixs last month. Chevrolet sold 6,249 Monte Carlos last month. NASCAR has zipp to do with any sales of any real volume outside the southeast, where for some bizzare reason or another, there are people who associate the type of stickers on a standardized, handmade, race car with the real stock production car itself.

If NASCAR had any real influence on a cars sales, Monte Carlo would be selling like gangbusters over the Grand Prix (more wins). As it is, Monte Carlo is selling relatively well on it's own, and Grand Prix is doing extremely well, without having to resort to NASCAR.

As it is, NASCAR participation is simply part of GM advertizement budget. GM decided to move their advertizing money elsewhere. I can't imagine 1 single Pontiac Grand Prix sale comming from running a car at NASCAR, while I can imagine bushels of sales from it's improved quality and move upscale without a upscale price.

I'm sure GM did alot of research on this (they seem to research everything imaginable before they move), and figured Pontiac would do better & they would save money by not participating in NASCAR.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Exactly why is it a joke? I agree its sorta gay they cars are called "stock" cars but they have no resemblance to stock showroom vehicles. Well, it hasn't been that way for at least 15 years now when they finally purged all production sheetmetal and glass from the cars. The term "stock car" hasn't really meant a true stock vehicle for decades anyway. It is meant to define a class of racing with fendered, fully enclosed cars as contrasted to open wheel.

As for the technology....its kept simple for a reason...keeps competition up and costs down. The perception that this is just a bunch of hicks is wrong...all the hottest talent in the country is going to NASCAR, and not just drivers. They have engineers, computer guys, etc. etc. Just because electronics are not used on the cars themselves does not make NASCAR inherently low tech. The level of technology at the shop and in the pits would probably suprise a lot of F1/Indy car elitist who think NASCAR is for hillbillies.

I would like to see them return to a greater influence of production chassis, but its just not feasible anymore w/o changing the racing itself in such a way as to totally change the "product" that is a NASCAR race.

[/rant off]

 

NASCAR is really more about the DRIVERS and to a lesser extent the teams than brand. Like I said before, NASCAR fans are not stupid, they know that a Taurus on the track is a completely differnet animal than the one they drive to the race.

It is a publicity vehicle....you know how advertising works. The more you get your product mentioned the better. It keeps the name in the consumer's mind so that when they do think about getting a car they're more likely to look you up.

 

Maybe GM will throw a little more money towards C6R and Cadillac’s racing programs to dominate the European tracks. I’d love to see a Corvette in the winners circle at Le’mans again.

 

How many two door Grand Prixs did Pontiac sell last month?

 

2004 will be Toyota's venture in to Nascar, in the Truck series. no mention, not even rumors, of Toyota entering Cup...uhhhhhh i mean Nextel anytime soon

 

GuionM,
I 150% totally disagree with you.

First of, comparing the number of GP sales last month to the number of MC sales last month is not only unfair, but irreleviant.

to compaire the GP, which has 3 trim levels (GT, GTP, Comp G) has a hight base engine, a more powerful engine, and is a 4 door, to a MC, which has 2 trim levels (LS, SS....(I know they know have the super charged version, but doubt that was in last months sales figures)) a less powerful engine (200 vs 260. again, the SC version of the MC not being figured into the sales) and is only a 2 door, which as we all know is not selling anywhere near where sedan cars are selling.

The irreleviant part is this.....do you honstly think GM would spend millions of dollars in to NASCAR just to try and sell MC'c and GP's???? if that were the case, why not use the Impala instead of the MC, and just drop the MC altogether.

The number one reason i believe GM is even in NASCAR, or even in racing, is Sales, not just to that specific model, but across the whole division. Granted, part of the reason is getting back technology, and safety. but their main reason is sales.

If you've ever been to a Nascar race, what type of cars do you see the fans mostly driving in with? It's not just GP's or MC's or even just Intrepids. But it's Silverado's, Avengers, Rams, Mustangs, etc... American cars and trucks. IT's been known that racing fans are loyal to their respective driver and series. Why else to companies sponsor cars. And this goes to the type of beer we drink, to the type of motor oil we use to the type of cars we buy. the phrase "win on sunday, sell on monday" still holds true. If chevy wins, or Dale Jr, or Jeff Gordon wins, people are buying chevy's, not just Monte Carlos.

GunionM, sorry about getting all passionate about this, was just tring to get my point of view across and i got a little carried away