GM execs to reportedly meet with Toyota regarding hybrid sharing
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From: Charleston, WV
GM execs to reportedly meet with Toyota regarding hybrid sharing
Rumors that General Motors may get access to Toyota's proprietary hybrid technology just won't go away. Today, Bloomberg cites two unnamed sources in reports that Toyota President Akio Toyoda and GM chief Fritz Henderson will meet this August in Michigan to discuss the possibility of a GM-badged version of the Toyota Prius hybrid hatchback.
For the record, both General Motors and Toyota have repeatedly denied that any such talks have taken place in the past and have said it's unlikely that they ever will in the future. Many of these rumors indicate that the two automakers are considering building the Prius together at the New United Motor Manufacturing Incorporated (NUMMI) joint venture in California, but GM has today announced that its involvement in NUMMI is over.
It remains a possibility that Toyota will fully take over the reigns at NUMMI to finally build the Prius in America, but even if that's the case, it's extremely unlikely that General Motors will have anything to do with the project in light of its own massive undertaking of readying the Chevrolet Volt for the market in 2011.
For the record, both General Motors and Toyota have repeatedly denied that any such talks have taken place in the past and have said it's unlikely that they ever will in the future. Many of these rumors indicate that the two automakers are considering building the Prius together at the New United Motor Manufacturing Incorporated (NUMMI) joint venture in California, but GM has today announced that its involvement in NUMMI is over.
It remains a possibility that Toyota will fully take over the reigns at NUMMI to finally build the Prius in America, but even if that's the case, it's extremely unlikely that General Motors will have anything to do with the project in light of its own massive undertaking of readying the Chevrolet Volt for the market in 2011.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Melbourne, Australia
I remember reading something about Rick (GM's former CEO) taking a trip to Japan to discuss a possible tie up regarding hybrid technology some time back?
Anyway, the question I have is why is GM seeking help from Toyota on hybrids? I thought GM had the 'better' technology on that front? Or is GM's methodology way too expensive for the mainstream?
Anyway, the question I have is why is GM seeking help from Toyota on hybrids? I thought GM had the 'better' technology on that front? Or is GM's methodology way too expensive for the mainstream?
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From: Ontario
Personally I can't see it happening. GM's got the Volt coming as their greenie flagship, and their Two-Mode system will soon be available on FWD cars. What would be the point in tying up with Toyota, unless they're finding that their own technology is just too far behind (which I doubt)?
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From: Arcadia, OK
Would a two-mode system Malibu be price-competitive with the Fusion Hybrid? Seems to me that there's a big hole in GMs portfolio right there. I really expect the Fusion Hybrid-style/size cars to be the meat of the market in a few years (if not sooner).
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
So what does this say about the 2 mode?
Time to put a DI turbo 1.6L in a Malibu and start advertising that it gets better hwy mileage than all the midsize hybrid sedans. GM might not be able to beat Ford and Toyota with city hybrid mileage, but they can sure as hell put out a car that can top them on the hwy.
Time to put a DI turbo 1.6L in a Malibu and start advertising that it gets better hwy mileage than all the midsize hybrid sedans. GM might not be able to beat Ford and Toyota with city hybrid mileage, but they can sure as hell put out a car that can top them on the hwy.
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From: Payson, AZ USA
If it was just the technology, it might fly ... licensing Toyota's hybrid technology didn't seem to hinder Ford or Nissan. But if it's a rebadged Prius, yeah, not much good can come from that.
Personally I can't see it happening. GM's got the Volt coming as their greenie flagship, and their Two-Mode system will soon be available on FWD cars. What would be the point in tying up with Toyota, unless they're finding that their own technology is just too far behind (which I doubt)?
Personally I can't see it happening. GM's got the Volt coming as their greenie flagship, and their Two-Mode system will soon be available on FWD cars. What would be the point in tying up with Toyota, unless they're finding that their own technology is just too far behind (which I doubt)?
If GM were to license Toyotas hybrid technology, it would undermine their entire hybrid/electric program. The sheep out there, would immediately associate the good FE results to Toyota, and would think that Toyota developed the Volt also. Because, as we know, only Toyota develops alternative fuel systems............. and all their cars run on daisies and rainbows.
Much like some think that Ford licensed Toyotas hybrid technology.
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From: Ontario
Ford didn't license Toyotas technology. Nissan did.
If GM were to license Toyotas hybrid technology, it would undermine their entire hybrid/electric program. The sheep out there, would immediately associate the good FE results to Toyota, and would think that Toyota developed the Volt also. Because, as we know, only Toyota develops alternative fuel systems............. and all their cars run on daisies and rainbows.
Much like some think that Ford licensed Toyotas hybrid technology.
If GM were to license Toyotas hybrid technology, it would undermine their entire hybrid/electric program. The sheep out there, would immediately associate the good FE results to Toyota, and would think that Toyota developed the Volt also. Because, as we know, only Toyota develops alternative fuel systems............. and all their cars run on daisies and rainbows.
Much like some think that Ford licensed Toyotas hybrid technology.
Ford to Use Toyota's Hybrid Technology
Toyota licenses hybrid engine technology to Ford
Ford licensed 21 patents from Toyota
Ford buys Toyota technology
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From: Payson, AZ USA
There have been many misinformed articles. Many times, on this very forum, this has been proven to be false.
There was a patent licensing exchange, because Ford "in house" designed hybrid software, came too close to Toyotas "broad" patents.
That is all it is. Fords hybrid technology, is indeed, Fords hybrid technology.
That said, the Gen 2 hybrid (read Fusion Hybrid), did not have to deal with the issue at all.
You have to ask yourself this, if Ford just licensed Toyotas system............... then why did Fords always operate more smoothly than Toyotas has? However, you can feel free to believe what you will, and just write off what I say, because I own a couple of Fords.
There was a patent licensing exchange, because Ford "in house" designed hybrid software, came too close to Toyotas "broad" patents.
That is all it is. Fords hybrid technology, is indeed, Fords hybrid technology.
That said, the Gen 2 hybrid (read Fusion Hybrid), did not have to deal with the issue at all.
You have to ask yourself this, if Ford just licensed Toyotas system............... then why did Fords always operate more smoothly than Toyotas has? However, you can feel free to believe what you will, and just write off what I say, because I own a couple of Fords.
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Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Oakland, California
Sorry but I don't buy the story that Toyota will share hybrid technology with GM. As big as a market California is for the Prius, you'd think NUMMI was an ideal plant to add production. Yet back before GM pulled the plug on Pontiac, Toyota was dead set against bringing the Prius to Fremont because they didn't want to share the platform with GM. Now all of a sudden when GM is on the mat with an eight count, Toyota is going to throw in the towel? I just don't see it.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Irving, TX
Somehow I just knew you'd be in here trying to refute this. Here's a few links for you to read, if you truly don't believe Ford licenced Toyota's hybrid tech.
Ford licensed 21 patents from Toyota
Ford licensed 21 patents from Toyota
"Ford Motor Company independently developed a system with key technologies similar to Toyota's HSD technology in 2004. As a result, Ford licensed 21 patents from Toyota in exchange for patents relating to emissions technology.[4] It is currently offered in an SUV, the Ford Escape, though a hybrid Ford Fusion will be released with Ford's second-generation hybrid drivetrain in the future.[5] The four-cylinder hybrid Escape achieves an increase in mileage, and is rated by the EPA with a combined 34 mpg, a 36% improvement over other similar sized SUVs from Subaru and Honda (Forester and CR-V, 25 mpg combined).[6]"
"Ford has developed a similar hybrid system, introduced in the Ford Escape Hybrid."
A citation link from that wiki.
http://www.businessweek.com/innovate...innovat_1.html
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
My opinion:
Toyota is scared...
Remember; Toyota came to GM. Not the other way around.
Toyota is facing at least 2 years of losses, is locked into a lot of high dollar contracts that it really can't afford now (thanks to the huge expansion of the early century) and it's banking of the same technology for the Prius for the foreseeable future.
GM, in contrast, just inked a deal where it has very little debt (in comparison to what it had) AND can be profitable at a market of 10 million units. (Consider, that our market is hovering at around 13 million units right now) Not to mention, GM has better 2 mode technology and the Volt about to debut.
Toyota is TRYING to spin this as them being charitable to GM (which the Toyota loving media is falling for hook, line and sinker) But, I certainly think it's a 'hedge our bets' move on their part.
FWIW, I do believe that Ford licensed technology from Toyota for their hybrid program. In exchange (and of course, this was NEVER mentioned by a media that was looking to project Ford as 'outdated') Ford licensed heavy duty diesel (Super Duty) technology to Toyota for the Tundra. If the Tundra HD program makes it to market (I'm not sure what it's status is right now) expect to see some 'familiar' stuff.
Toyota is scared...
Remember; Toyota came to GM. Not the other way around.
Toyota is facing at least 2 years of losses, is locked into a lot of high dollar contracts that it really can't afford now (thanks to the huge expansion of the early century) and it's banking of the same technology for the Prius for the foreseeable future.
GM, in contrast, just inked a deal where it has very little debt (in comparison to what it had) AND can be profitable at a market of 10 million units. (Consider, that our market is hovering at around 13 million units right now) Not to mention, GM has better 2 mode technology and the Volt about to debut.
Toyota is TRYING to spin this as them being charitable to GM (which the Toyota loving media is falling for hook, line and sinker) But, I certainly think it's a 'hedge our bets' move on their part.
FWIW, I do believe that Ford licensed technology from Toyota for their hybrid program. In exchange (and of course, this was NEVER mentioned by a media that was looking to project Ford as 'outdated') Ford licensed heavy duty diesel (Super Duty) technology to Toyota for the Tundra. If the Tundra HD program makes it to market (I'm not sure what it's status is right now) expect to see some 'familiar' stuff.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Let me get this straight...
Ford developed their system 'independently' but the design was already patented by Toyota, err, we are talking 21 patents overall but only 4 patents were bought by Toyota from Ford relating to emissions technology (is this for the same system or another, totally different system?).
It is just pure coincidence that something like that can happen? I don't believe so as developers would normally be aware of all systems out there currently on the market and how they work. Somehow, it doesn't sound like Ford were very independent to me.
Maybe it's symbolic of how Ford under-promise and over-deliver... I dunno? 
Still would like to know what GM's relationship with Toyota will be regarding hybrids. That is a strange turn of events given the two have gone down separate paths.
Ford developed their system 'independently' but the design was already patented by Toyota, err, we are talking 21 patents overall but only 4 patents were bought by Toyota from Ford relating to emissions technology (is this for the same system or another, totally different system?).
It is just pure coincidence that something like that can happen? I don't believe so as developers would normally be aware of all systems out there currently on the market and how they work. Somehow, it doesn't sound like Ford were very independent to me.
Maybe it's symbolic of how Ford under-promise and over-deliver... I dunno? Still would like to know what GM's relationship with Toyota will be regarding hybrids. That is a strange turn of events given the two have gone down separate paths.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Yep I am asking myself that question right now. Any proof of that statement or are you just commenting based on 'personal experience'?
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,448
From: Irving, TX
Let me get this straight...
Ford developed their system 'independently' but the design was already patented by Toyota, err, we are talking 21 patents overall but only 4 patents were bought by Toyota from Ford relating to emissions technology (is this for the same system or another, totally different system?).
It is just pure coincidence that something like that can happen? I don't believe so as developers would normally be aware of all systems out there currently on the market and how they work. Somehow, it doesn't sound like Ford were very independent to me. Maybe it's symbolic of how Ford under-promise and over-deliver... I dunno?
Ford developed their system 'independently' but the design was already patented by Toyota, err, we are talking 21 patents overall but only 4 patents were bought by Toyota from Ford relating to emissions technology (is this for the same system or another, totally different system?).
It is just pure coincidence that something like that can happen? I don't believe so as developers would normally be aware of all systems out there currently on the market and how they work. Somehow, it doesn't sound like Ford were very independent to me.
Maybe it's symbolic of how Ford under-promise and over-deliver... I dunno? The the last prius came out as a 2004 model. The Escape Hybrid model came out as a 2005 model. Maybe that should clear things up.