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Old Jan 26, 2010 | 08:59 AM
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GM and electric motor production

WASHINGTON – GM will expand its in-house electric vehicle development capabilities by becoming the first major U.S. automaker to design and manufacture electric motors, a core technology for hybrids and electric vehicles.


By doing so, GM will lower costs and improve performance, quality, reliability and manufacturability of electric motors by controlling design, materials selection and production processes. The first GM-designed and built electric motors are scheduled to debut in 2013 in next-generation, rear-wheel-drive Two-mode Hybrid technology.


“Electric motor innovation supported the first wave of automotive growth a century ago with the electric starter, which eliminated the need for a hand crank, and revolutionized automotive travel for the customer,” said Tom Stephens, GM vice chairman, Global Product Operations. “We think the electrification of today’s automobiles will be just as revolutionary and just as beneficial to our customers. Electric motors will play a huge role in that.”


In conventional cars and trucks, automakers design and manufacture engines to efficiently use energy provided from a gas tank to provide power to the wheels. Motors and batteries, respectively, fill that role in hybrid and electric vehicles. As the range and speed of electric-only propulsion increase, so do the importance of motors and batteries.


Electric vehicles are powered solely by electric motors, while hybrid vehicles also use an internal combustion engine for propulsion. GM’s next-generation rear-wheel-drive Two-mode Hybrid system will use two unique motor designs and an internal combustion engine to provide improved fuel efficiency compared with the current Two-mode Hybrid technology in GM’s full-size pickup trucks and sport-utility vehicles.


“In the future, electric motors might become as important to GM as engines are now,” Stephens said. “By designing and manufacturing electric motors in-house, we can more efficiently use energy from batteries as they evolve, potentially reducing cost and weight – two significant challenges facing batteries today.”


GM has been building this in-house capability for years, expanding electric motor research and development, design and validation capabilities at facilities in Michigan, Indiana and California. GM also has developed state-of-the-art math-based design and computing capacity for electric motors. The electric motors will be manufactured in the U.S. at a GM facility.


GM was selected in August by the U.S. Department of Energy for a $105-million grant for the construction of U.S. manufacturing capabilities to produce electric motors and related electric drive components. “The new GM is about speed, and we are delivering quickly on the government’s desire to grow domestic expertise in electric vehicle technologies, such as batteries and electric motors,” Stephens said.


Similar to today’s internal combustion engines, automotive electric motors require an unparalleled combination of exceptionally low noise, vibration and harshness (NVH); high reliability and affordability that is achievable only by understanding the entire value chain. In addition to growing in-house capabilities, GM will continue to purchase and co-design electric motors with suppliers.


“This is a strategy we use today with batteries,” Stephens said. “We are partnering with suppliers to create innovations faster than ever before. Our goal is simply to establish GM as a leader in automotive electric motors. We see that leadership as a key enabler – both to our long-term success and to our nation’s move away from oil dependence.”
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 10:05 AM
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Good move.
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 10:34 AM
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Manufacturing jobs in America...whodathunkit...way to go GM!!
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 11:01 AM
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By doing so, GM will lower costs and improve performance, quality, reliability and manufacturability of electric motors by controlling design, materials selection and production processes.
That's a pretty big leap, IMO. What makes GM think they can design a better electric motor than the companies that have this as a core competency and have been doing this for decades? Seems like they'd have to spend a tonne of resources just catching up, and even then may not produce as good a product in the end. Partnering with an established player would make a lot more sense.
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by R377
That's a pretty big leap, IMO. What makes GM think they can design a better electric motor than the companies that have this as a core competency and have been doing this for decades? Seems like they'd have to spend a tonne of resources just catching up, and even then may not produce as good a product in the end. Partnering with an established player would make a lot more sense.
Electric motors are not that complicated, its actually the controllers and related battery recharging units that are more complex. Besides, GM used to own Electo-Motive Diesel, and don't forget they also built the EV1. Its actually in their DNA.

While it would probably cost them less to partner with someone, they should be given props for creating jobs in-house. (Which was probably the primary reason behind this.)
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
While it would probably cost them less to partner with someone, they should be given props for creating jobs in-house. (Which was probably the primary reason behind this.)
You don't think Washington had a little "sump'n sump'n" to do with this? Curious that the article was released from there and not Detroit.
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
Besides, GM used to own Electo-Motive Diesel, and don't forget they also built the EV1. Its actually in their DNA.

While it would probably cost them less to partner with someone, they should be given props for creating jobs in-house. (Which was probably the primary reason behind this.)
The ElectroMotive connection is a very good catch on your part!

Future gasoline prices are nowhere near set in stone. Anything but, actually.

If electrics are a part of the future, which I think is true, then it stands to reason that keeping innovation and technology reach is a wise move.

No single propulsion type will be THE way to go.

Electric motors are nothing new. Making the most of battery powered electricity motors moving the sort of weight in the sorts of environments personal transportation can involve includes many possibilities worth persuing.

Toyota has been buying up lithium mineral rights... financed with assistance by Nippon Inc., sorry... the Japanese government.

GM is refusing to be caught flat footed. I figure it's a smart and proactive move in a business that's primarily reactive.
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 02:48 PM
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Speaking of facilities....

What's going on in Honeoye falls these days?

As said, the controllers are the much bigger issue. Designing and validating a new motor for 10 years of use isn't exactly cake, but you can do a lot of FEA on the computer before parts are first cast. On the other hand, a giant PCB with a bajillion components takes an epic amount of time to validate. The FMEA on those things is a stack of papers a mile high, and the potential failures include burning a vehicle to the ground.

Dealing with these very very costly issues and lawsuits with a 3rd party supplier (if vehicles do burn down) ends up creating years of lawyer fights to determine liability. Doing it in house can actually save headaches in that regard. Atleast you know who's fault it was.
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 1fastdog
Future gasoline prices are nowhere near set in stone. Anything but, actually.

If electrics are a part of the future, which I think is true, then it stands to reason that keeping innovation and technology reach is a wise move.

No single propulsion type will be THE way to go.
I totally agree with you. EVs are not the only answer. Biofuels, fuel cells, heck even air powered may have some part in our automotive future.

Originally Posted by 1fastdog
The ElectroMotive connection is a very good catch on your part!
Not really. I work in the railroad industry.
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
Electric motors are not that complicated, its actually the controllers and related battery recharging units that are more complex. Besides, GM used to own Electo-Motive Diesel, and don't forget they also built the EV1. Its actually in their DNA.
That was kinda my point ... while obviously not as simple as a blower motor, traction motors are a lot closer to being commodity items than they are a unique product differentiator like an IC engine is. And traction motors will likely become only more commodity-ized as the technology is refined by everyone. Commodities are more efficiently produced by suppliers, not OEMs. Doesn't make sense for GM to be in that game.

As for Electro-Motive, it's really apples and oranges. The weight, efficiency, NVH, driveability, etc. requirements of a locomotive and a passenger vehicle are vastly different. An EV's electric motor is more than just a scaled down 1000-hp locomotive motor. And don't forget, the majority of EMD's locomotives were DC traction not AC. Despite EMD being the pioneer of AC traction, it never really took off and replaced DC like they had hoped. Heck, they're still pumping out what are essentially glorified Dash 2s that are going on 40 years old!

Originally Posted by jg95z28
While it would probably cost them less to partner with someone, they should be given props for creating jobs in-house. (Which was probably the primary reason behind this.)
So if it's a political move, let's just say so. And at the same time, recognize that there's likely going to be a penalty to GM in terms of cost and technology.

Last edited by R377; Jan 26, 2010 at 03:09 PM.
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by R377
So if it's a political move, let's just say so. And at the same time, recognize that there's likely going to be a penalty to GM in terms of cost and technology.
Not necessarily. If the cost of oil or inflation go up this will save GM a lot of money. I see this and all recent decisions to manufacture in the US as a bet on whether globalization or localization will win in the 2010's. I think a lot of people see the US dollar being weaker internationally (good for US manufacturing) and oil being more expensive. Oil Exporting nations are consuming more and more of their own product which leaves less for us importers to fight over. Higher oil prices mean shipping from China is too expensive.

I truly think that by 2020 you will see more made in the USA and less made in China products at WalMart than you do here in 2010.
Old Jan 26, 2010 | 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Z28x
Not necessarily. If the cost of oil or inflation go up this will save GM a lot of money. I see this and all recent decisions to manufacture in the US as a bet on whether globalization or localization will win in the 2010's. I think a lot of people see the US dollar being weaker internationally (good for US manufacturing) and oil being more expensive. Oil Exporting nations are consuming more and more of their own product which leaves less for us importers to fight over. Higher oil prices mean shipping from China is too expensive.

I truly think that by 2020 you will see more made in the USA and less made in China products at WalMart than you do here in 2010.
I don't necessarily see this is a choice between being made by GM vs. being made in China. GM could still partner/outsource to a North American, or perhaps European, company.

In my mind it's about opportunity cost versus benefit. GM will have to spend millions trying to catch up in the electric motor game, and it's hard to see that investment paying off versus buying the motors from a capable supplier. In the meantime, what other investment opportunities, that could potentially have a greater benefit to the company, will they have to pass on because they're putting their money into a commodity that's more easily purchased?
Old Jan 27, 2010 | 12:44 PM
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Ah...how far this forum has come
Old Jan 27, 2010 | 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by R377
So if it's a political move, let's just say so. And at the same time, recognize that there's likely going to be a penalty to GM in terms of cost and technology.
I never said it was a political move. I said maybe it was a move to create jobs. While some here would construe that to mean the government is forcing them to create jobs in North America, it could in fact be a marketing move. For example, my mom has been hemming and hawing about her next vehicle purchase. She very much wants a luxury crossover and likes the offerings from Acura (RDX) and Lexus (RX 350) the most. However she also wants to buy a vehicle that will support American workers. So if in fact GM is creating jobs here to build electric motors for the Volt, Converj and future hybrids and EVs, it could help bolster sales of vehicles to people who want to do the right thing by buying a vehicle that helps the environment, but who also want to support the economy here rather than outside North America... and maybe, just maybe, they'd be willing to spend a little more to do that.
Old Jan 27, 2010 | 08:20 PM
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IF electric motors are going to be a primary power source of a significant number of passenger vehicles in the future, it makes complete sense for GM to take it on as a core competency from an early stage. Could you even imagine GM outsourcing the production of internal combustions engines? I couldn't. The only real debate that I can see occurring here is whether or not electric motors will actually be the primary drive for a significant number of cars/trucks in the future.



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