I must agree with that statement 100% - the money must be responsibly managed and spent to provide the best value for teaching the kids. It shouldn't be "squandered" on fancy building facias, changing school mascot logos, and exotic landscaping on school lawns that are bigger than football fields IMO.

Along these lines, I'd like to comment on a bi-polar issue that I have yet to come to grips with...
Here in NC, our first year teachers start out at about $28k/year, especially in low grades. That ain't much money for the person spending 6-8 hours a day with your kid, in a class of 24, and teching them about EVERYTHING from manners to arithmetic. On the other side of the fence, the teachers in Pennsylvania are making HUGE salaries - some as high as $80k/year. The taxes in that state are phenomenal , in no small part due to the teacher's and faculty's salaries and benefits (or so the Pittsburgers I work with tell me when I visit). Well, I'm all for a teacher making GOOD money - they deserve it, no doubt. But at what point does a teacher making $80k/year become a financial burden because they are in a trailer, teaching from textbooks that are dated and falling apart?

I am truely torn over that topic, and it all comes back down to what you said earlier (which I agree with) about the money - just throwing money at the issue will not ensure a successful solution. In fact, it often doesn't solve the issue but creates strife instead.

So to clarify my position - I am NOT saying we should all throw tons of money aimlessly into public education - not at all. What I AM saying is that we should not hold back on money that could be well-spent and used in educating our children, because our children are the future - I see it as investing in our future directly.

If I "missed this subtlety" about you because of your previous post, then I certainly apologize for that. I took your quote,"I think we are throwing more than enough money at education, healthcare, etc. etc. in this country, we have been for 40 years, and not much is better. " as not-so-subtle or unclear. I am guilty of "reading more meaning" into what gets typed and occasionally getting it wrong - so please take my next comment as constructive criticism - Don't be so "subtle" sometimes. Be clear, definitive, and explain yourself or your position thoroughly. I think we would agree more often than not if we were to explain ourselves more clearly - all of us. These are the areas where internet conversations fall far short of actual face-to-face, where discussion can roll along, and facial expressions and tone of voice can convey different meanings than plain ol' typed words can offer.


PS - I'm not a "Liberal" just because I disagreed with you either!

 

Great post Proud, thanks.

My issues with education come from the fact we have over-emphasized concrete things like books, computers and classrooms, buildings, etc, and neglected the quality/qualifications of our teachers and the cirruculum itself.

No one has been able to correlate grades with how new your school building is, or anything like that. Heck, there's not even much correlation between class size and grades.

But the teacher's unions don't like anything that questions the competency of teachers. That has to change.

 

Just a humorous sidenote. About 12 or 15 years ago...the Chicago public school teachers went on strike. The president of the Chicago teacher's union was being interviewed on the state of education in Chicago. Her response was...."Ain't no way, it's the teacher's fault"

 

I should note that I was NOT talking about the subsidy of Iraq's 5c gas. I'm speaking on a much broader scale.

 

I don't know about the rest of the country, but here in Idaho and Utah gas prices have been over $2.00 for a while.

Not to mention, our ENTRY level octane is 85!
Mid is 87 (which is the base for MOST cars) and then PREMIUM is only 91 octane.

I filled my 15 gallon gas tank in my Beretta with 91 and I paid $2.34 a gallon!

Thats rediculous.

I remember back in 98, before I moved out west, 87 was $.99 a gallon! In 6 years, we've jumped over a dollar a gallon? HOW IN THE HELL is what I want to know...

I'm not that old or young but I still remember 87 running only $.82 a gallon back in the early 90's in Georga when on vacation.

 

I thought this thread was about gas prices

In NY state teachers get paid good. My friend just started and he is getting $37K for 9 mos. worth of work That is $4100 a month before tax!!! My Chem teacher from highschool retired making $70,000

 

I've said this before and I'll say it again. This is the only forum on the MB that can have a (somewhat) level headed, flame free, thought out and healthy political debate. Great job guys

Anyway, since I only skimmed over the polical stuff because I'm in a hurry, I'll only speak about the gas prices.

Powerful cars are not at risk, anyone who wants one and can afford one will probably not be affected too much by higher gas prices. Its the people that get SUV's over minivans because they're "cooler" that are going to start having to make decisions based on necessity rather than what they "want." I can't wait for that day.

As far as oil supply and demand goes. If we can get these new alternative energies into the market and insert them solely into transportation vehicles like Semi's, trailors, buses, etc, we will have made a HUGE difference as far as dependency goes. In turn, causing us to restructure our countries oil policies. Cost of gas would probably go up, but the cost of products and goods would probably go down.

 

I've been reading up on Abiotic oil theory. First proposed by Russian scientists in the 50s, it has to do with oil not being from dead dinos but from older, deeper processes during the formation of the planet.

There is evidence that empty oil fields re-fill from below, plus using Abiotic theory, they have successfully predicted where to drill in a few places that traditional dino theory would not have.

If Abiotic theories are correct, there could easily be 5-10 times as much oil as we thought. Oil companies and research groups are now putting a lot of time and money into Abiotic research, most of it promising.

The upside is no more shortages and cheap gas for as long as we probably need it. The downside is no transition to cleaner fuels means more issues with smog, ozone, etc. etc.

 

 

And we would still eventually run out of that as well, it would just take longer....

I've always thought though, like a thousand years down the line or whatever, that people would be laughing at us now for ever thinking oil came from decomposed dinosaurs and plants

 

Some people already are. Seriously, I wonder how many people have put any thought toward it. They're drilling for oil as deep as 4500 ft of water. That's just the water depth, they have to actually drill farther down than that to get to the oil. Now, that is not on the continental shelf, it's deep ocean. That is a place that has NEVER been dry land, where no large deposits of plant life and dinosaurs existed for hundreds of millions of years. Buried UNDER the ocean floor! Eventually people are going to wake up and realize "fossil" fuels aren't fossils at all. (BTW, I work for an oil company)

 

How'd this turn into a discussion of school reform? *yawn*

(One word completely solves the problem folks: VOUCHERS)

Gee, THANKS for granting your blessing to H2 owners
However I find it ridiculous to bend our lifestyles and safety needs around a relatively cheap commodity like 'fossil' fuel. Lots of people want and need large vehicles. They offer more capacity, versatility, and safety (BTW if my vehicle weighs twice as much as yours and we collide, you are EIGHT more times likely to die!). They make driving more fun to some owners, and allow better visibility of the road with reduced headlight glare for their occupants. THAT is why there are so many sales of large trucks & SUV's and correspondingly, so many satisfied owners.

Perhaps you should buy a Yugo for your daily driver? Comedian Paul Shanklin ( www.paulshanklin.com ) has made a parody masterpiece regarding the urgent need for us to all sacrifice to save our precious oil, sung to the tune of Elvis' "In the Ghetto":



BTW... 24/7 subscribers to www.rushlimbaugh.com can hear this cutie right now!

 

As a gearhead, I like this idea. However, the sad reality is that the oil is going to run out sooner or later, and we are currently living in the last few decades of the petroleum economy.

 

I'm leaning away from the oil=old dinos and plants thing myself. Many scientists have considered Shale Oil as an alternative source.

The cost of extraction for this, though, is likely to be several times what the current cost is for getting oil out of the ground. So, regardless of what's there, if the cost of getting it out of the ground and into your gas tank is sky high, it doesn't help us much.
I prefer not to borrow from your safety, to increase my own.
BTW, you do know that collision AVOIDANCE is much more difficult in a vehicle that weighs twice as much, right? So much for the safety advantage, eh?

http://money.cnn.com/2003/01/15/pf/a...afety/?cnn=yes

http://www.arches.uga.edu/~surbizo/deathrate.html

http://www.safecarguide.com/exp/safety/safety.htm

http://www.suv.org/safety.html

Who needs a Yugo? I drive a 3600lb, five passenger family car that gets me 32mpg on road trips, and over 23 around town. 14sec 1/4 timeslips, too.

Todd

 

It does my heart good to know that I give you a reason to live!

I thought about not responding as usual, but I can't pass this one up.

I never gave anyone "my blessing" to buy an H2... you included!
So take 'em all back!!! NOW!!!

And so now we buy our 6000-lb SUV's for the safety of us and our loved ones now? Not for the status symbol, the wow-factor, or to keep up with the Jones'? Purely safety, eh.
So tell me, what makes the $65k-blob of an H2 more safe than a $40k Yukon or a $30k Trailblazer? Heck, as I recall Volvo has some of the safest vehicles in the world, but they don't puke-out 6000-lb SUV's like gumballs - most of them are below 5000-lbs and less than 6-ft tall too, aren't they?

If you'll read back, I too own a 7000-lb titan. But I didn't buy it to run 8 miles to the store for a bottle of pop and then back. I bought it to WORK, which means pull cars and tractors, haul hay and horse feed, get gravel, haul wood, and the like. So if I'm not doing "work", I don't drive it. I drive a more economical vehicle.
How's that "bending my lifestyle and safety needs to get around a cheap commodity"?!?! I call it being thrifty, consciencious, and environmentally responsible. I don't consider either of my other vehicles to be "death traps" just because they don't weigh 7000-lbs like my truck.

I recall you have a nice car in your sig - was it a 2004 Grand Prix GTP Competition Group - that I'm sure you enjoy. I like them too - awesome appearance and great at AutoX's too I might add - a buddy has one. Is it not a "safe" vehicle? Yet it does not weigh 6000 lbs I hope! So which aspect of safety did you choose to ignore... "the heavy vehicle always wins" side, or the "my car has 77 air bags" side?
Either way, you have negated your own argument about trying to justify buying heavy SUV's and trucks for their "safety" because you, my friend, chose NOT to buy one and drive it every day. Was safety not important in your decision? Must have been, since you included it in your website comments - "Compared to the previous Grand Prix generation (1997-2003), the new design has better performance, safety, versatility, ergonomics and quality!".
Let's just hope we don't ever have a collision with you in your CompG and me in my SuperDuty with 14,000-lbs of "stuff" behind it (but I can promise you, if you see me in my truck - it will likely have a load of some kind!) because you predicted the outcome in your post... 8 times more likely I think you said. So, you gonna trade-in te CompG and get a 2500SD tonight so you're prepared when we collide on the street?

Look, your point about weight and safety are valid, but I hardly see that as the SOLE reason (or even a good reason) to "bend our lifestyle" away from lighter cars and trucks that are in all honesty just as safe AND economically more responsible. Just My POV, and why I agreed with other posts regarding the casual, daily use of such mammoth SUV's.

Cheers!