I dont think that gas prices are gunna climb to 5 bucks a gallon. That is just insane. It sucks to drive in Europe, no way thats gunna happen here!! It could just possibly be in this cycle...

Cars go from fast to faster, and just when we all expected that power would keep going, and going, in comes some varible to throw everything off. Just like in the early 70's, the 00's will see the same effect.
Just an idea. I dont think that gas prices will go too high. The world runs on gas, and increasing the price more and more will only hurt world wide economies. Way too many things revolove around cars, trains and planes. At work, we are seeing an average decrease of 7-10% in sales as to compared to last year.

 

Keep in mind 2/3rds the price of gas in Europe is taxes.

Also keep in mind that although it may be 5 cents a gal in Iraq, average annual Per Capita income there ain't exactly the same here.

Probably as a percentage of their take home pay its about the same I'd bet.

 

As for cost of living, take home pay, you are exactly right, no question about it.

Here's MY problem with the subsidized gas in Iraq...
We have children in the USA that have no health care plans or insurance.
We have kids going to school in trailers or having mass-classes in gymnasiums because there is no classrooms for them.
We have elderly VETERANS that can not afford their medications.
We have elderly that can not affort heating oil for their homes.
We have a trade deficit that is growing like fungus on week-old-bread.
We have a national debt that is beyond comprehension, and still growing at an unbeleivable rate.
And so on and so on...

So why should the American Taxpayer be burdened with the subsidization of Iraqi gas prices, when Iraq itself is sitting on the world's second largest known oil reserve, and we carted off over $750-million in US cash from Saddam's cash-stash last year?

I mean, damn... I'm paying my property taxes, my income taxes, my gas taxes, my sales taxes, my county taxes, my state taxes, my social security taxes, and I'm paying $2/gal at the pump - still not griping too bad. But to find out that my kid has to sit in a trailer, using 7-y/o textbooks, and has no lab equipment in science lab because the school system had their state/federal funding cut back so much... it's just not right IMO.

The salt in the wound is that Halliburton is making a profit off transporting the gas - after subsidy - to boot! It's like the American Taxpayer has infinitely deep pockets... we can pay for anything the world may want or need.

What about us?

 

GM and Chrysler technically are doing "the future" ironically, gm first but chryslers actually using it in a lot more cars etc. Not just a truck. I'm talking about cylinder deactivation of course! Want a 300c with a 5.7 hemi? Great, want half of it to shut off so you get the economy of a 4cylinder most of the time (depending on how you drive of course.) I think this will get better and better with time, the ls1 etc already gets good mpg if you take it easy.

 

OK PP, you made your point. Lets take it all the way....lets pull out the billions we give the UN. After all, there are starving kids in America that should get that money first. Lets pull out billions from Israel and let the Arabs over-run the country.

Lets end all the help we give to poor African nations, including the Aids research dollars.

Lets end ALL foreign aid, because, after all, its better used here, right?

Your point is an old protectionist fallacy that goes back decades. I've heard people from the left and right utter this from time to time.

---

There are noble ends being persued in Iraq. it is essential we see that fight through to the establishment of a peaceful IRaq founded on democratic principles. That requires some sacrifice. $200 million is a pittance compared to a 2,500 BILLION dollar US federal budget.

Do not even get me started on the Billions of dollars we waste here at home on various "discretionary" spending programs or the woefully mismanaged Social Security program which is going broke as we speak though no one will lift a finger to fix it for fear the other side will demagogue them right out of office. $200 million is a joke compared to all that.

The article you cite says the US govt pays to have gas brought into Iraq from other countries because they don't have enough refining capacity on their own. So the US is doing this to prevent massive shortages in Iraq, which would cause massive civil unrest and probably cost us a lot of lives, both Iraqi and US.

So to Make ProudPony happy lets end the subsidy and see how many US Service Men and Women die as a result. Obviously that's an over-the-top statement but it makes my point very clearly. You cannot take something like "U.S. Subsidizes 5 Cent Iraqi Gas with $200M" out of context, because it is then easy to jump to flawed conclusions.

I think we are throwing more than enough money at education, healthcare, etc. etc. in this country, we have been for 40 years, and not much is better. It should be pretty clear by now that money is not always the solution by itself.

The money spent per pupil in New Jersey public schools is 4 times what it is here in TN. Yet we have better test scores. Wonder how that's possible?

If, as a nation, our measure of compassion for the less fortunate has boiled down to how much taxpayer money we flush down the toilet in the name of the needy, then we are in a whole heap of trouble.

All the Ronald Reagan stuff has reminded me of the indefatiguable optimism he had. We could use a big dose of that today IMO.

I thought this thread was supposed to be about gas prices and their effect on the demand for performance cars? Was it just a thinly veiled way of getting a few jabs in on the Bush Administration? Because we're veering off topic pretty quickly and the one who started the thread is the one who took the biggest curve off course so far.

 

back to the orig topic,

IMO, the gas prices are taking toll, but people plunking down $30k and over for more power and/or size, can deal with it.


Personally, I still my drive my Z28 and Avalanche, even on long trips, even though my gf's tracker get at least double the mpg of either.. I hate paying all that $$ at the gas station, but in my "twisted" mind, its worth it for the added performance or comfort... and say what you want, its nice to have performance or sheer size on your side.


But I haven't bought any CD's for a while (then again, i'm not estatic about any of the new music) and I think 3x's before going out to eat. Also, I cut down on buying vid games, and don't buy and DVD's either now. AKA, i just cut back on misc spending I can do without.. for now.

I'm starting to see the light of not being dependent on foreign oil though.. but the alternatives, just aren't there.

 

Newsflash to you guys:

Gas out here in California is running around $2.40 to $2.60 for regular, and for premium $2.60 to 2.80 per gallon.

We out here passed the $2.50 per gallon mark a couple of weeks ago. The highest I've personally seen here to date is $2.93 for premium.

 

in general high power v8's make tq down low. the more downlow tq you have the smaller gear you need and less RPM's you need to get around on the highway. i think thats how it goes anyways

 

Yup! I freaked out when I filled the Tahoe yesterday for $2.399 per. It was just $2.229 a week ago! Then I looked over and saw premium was $2.579...

And I have a 500 mile round trip coming up this weekend.

 

That's what ya get for living on the left coast, bub.

Now, go hug a tree.

 

The problem isn't oil supply, it's refinery capacity. Everything else is just a smoke screen. The US hasn't added refinery capacity since the 1970s. Even though it's the enviromentalists and government regs that created that, companies love it. It gives the ability to control supply despite drastically increased demand, and an easier ability to raise prices at least temporarily.

I also am against releasing supplies from the Strategic Oil Reserves. This is for emergency military use, and I think it's pretty ill advised to even think of using it.

As for Alaska's reserves, that's again a useless & pointless move that's more political than anything else. This is oil pulled from the ground of the US, yet it's put on the world market & sold at market prices! Anyone around from the 1970s remembers when Alaska 1st started pumping oil, ARCO has an exclusive deal, and started selling gas at roughly half of everyone else since Alsaka oil was much cheaper than what OPEC was selling at. California also was a recipient of Alaska oil, briefly having lower fuel prices than the east coast.

If oil pulled from Alaska was sold at the same margins as oil from other countries, it would mean lower priced fuel for us. However, what's going to happen is that oil pulled from preserves is simply going to enrich anyone holding oil stocks & stands to benefit from selling cheaper oil at OPEC level prices.

Australia has it right. 90%+ of the oil they produce is used inside Australia. Next to none is imported. Australia even exports oil.

We have more coal than anyone on the planet. Yet our powerplants run on oil. We have as much natural gas as anyone, yet outside California's urban areas, it's rare to see anyplace that uses CNG in taxis, buses, and city vehicles. We produce so much wheat that the government pays people not to grow it to keep prices up, yet we still don't use alcohol based fuels.

IMO, we have enough fuel to keep us going without oil imports and without "fuel cell" cars. However, there is just too many lobbys and intrests (from enviromentalists to oil companies to farm subsidies and so on...) that it isn't going to change.

 

Hey pal, you can drop the attitude... I am not trying to make this into a Bush-bashing thread...
My reference is to "the current administration - all involved, not just one man, and I would say the same if it were Kerry, Carter, or Clinton. You really think I'd waste my time trying to "hide" or camouflage a thread on THIS board?!?!
Honestly, the fact that you are the first to mention his name in particular says that you are a sympathizer moreso than I am an accuser. I'll say NOTHING MORE ABOUT IT - even if you reply to it, it's over with me.

Back to the issues of spending - yes it DOES matter, because the spending issue is US taxdollars on Iraqi GAS, in the world's most oil-rich nations no less. Just wondering, why don't we swap crude for gas?

Your reference to the amount of money is noteworty - just how much $ do you think it would take to get our schhols up to par?
How much money is a life worth? Even if it is your own grandparents doing without needed medication?

MY POINT was I think we need to do more spending here at home before we try to solve therest of the world's problems. I'm not saying we shouldn't spend ANYTHING on foreign policy or aid, but you know, you have to be a healthy man to go help your neighbor raise HIS barn, and right now, we are NOT the healthiest workhorse we've ever been as a nation, and our own barn is kinda getting run down to boot. Frankly, I am kinda sick and tired of having to bail everybody in the whole freaking world out all the time. I'm ready to do as the Romans did 1700 years ago, go in, take over, and give 'em an option... do as we say, or die. How's that for Democracy? <sacrasm>

Do you have kid(s)?
This topic really deserves another thread... but this statement alone really bothers me.
How can you think such?
Can your child EVER get enough education? Of high quality?
I have 8 years of college (university, not community college), an apprenticeship in tool and diework/machining, and still take courses at community colleges to keep up on new software and such - I have lived in it, and I still see the ENORMOUS shortcomings of our educational systems. I have a kid in elementary school right now, and I became intimate with her teachers (2 teachers for 24 kids, not bad these days). I gave the teacher $100 this year to buy stuff for the class, $60 at Christmas, cash - right out of my pocket. She cried when I gave it to her. She bought teaching aids that she wanted but didn't have the budget for, and used them for the class. Each kid got a book too. My daughter is reading at above 1st grade level, and just finished K-garten. I challenge you to find a teacher ANYWHERE that has all of the latest materials, newest books, newest computers, up to date classrooms, and teaching aids that they want or need to do their best teaching our kids. This is a no-holding-back area IMO - kids ARE our future.

Wow... I'm flabbergasted.

So, back to the cars part of it...
I still think you are going to see erosion of the sport car segment due to gas prices. I agree that SUV and truck sales will get hit harder and likely get hit first, but I don't see the sportscar segment skating away scott-free. As I said before, the amount of V6 and base units will directly impact what we see offered as top-dog units too - the financing of those top units has to come from somewhere.

 

Guion is right of course. Look at California alone and compare the number of refineries today compared to 20 years ago. Now compare the number of vehicles on the road over the same period.

IT'S SIMPLE MATH FOLKS!

As for the comment that OPEC is already pumping at capacity... were in the h-e-doublehockysticks did you pick up that load of manure???? OPEC purposely keeps production down in order to keep crude prices stabilized... in other words.... to keep their profits up.

Duh!

 

OIL COMPANIES don't want it to change...
Gee, who would want to give up a monopoly like that, especially just for "a cleaner environment" or some such lame excuse.

 

I agree with several of your points above, but am not sure what to make of this one. Fully 50% of our nation's power plant generation is from burning coal. Nuclear, oil and other sources make up the rest.

I agree 100.0% with this statement and I salute you Sir. Liberals have been more than eager for DECADES now to literally throw OUR money at these problems. What has it got us? Crumbling, decaying, failing, state-run inner-city schools and millions of poor souls addicted to public welfare. Foo. Privatize our schools with a fair and effective voucher system... set a reasonable but FIRM limit on welfare... and end the socialist system of dependency and despair.

(BTW I have two tykes, one in 1st grade and one in day care).

Back on topic. Too many Americans are taking an extremely myopic view on this whole Mideast situation. Instead, let's look at the long-term outlook (ASSUMING we don't cut and run ). For the first time in decades, maybe EVER, there is a real chance we can help a major oil-producing OPEC member to become democratic and truly free. What an amazing opportunity, both for them, and for the US and the Free World! What, do you suppose, will a democratic Iraq mean to OPEC's power? It will for sure help stabilize prices down at their true level (based on ACTUAL SUPPLIES, that's far south of $40/bbl). It will strip away any excuses for refineries ANYWHERE to be hobbled for capacity. And it will encourage other Arab nations to also become free and peaceful. That will be the true legacy of our mission in the mideast today (again, assuming we stay the course).

I miss President Reagan. He was a major inspiration to me and a huge hero in my life as an American. But I also learned some optimistic outlook habits from him. And I do believe that:

1. America still has the best form of government and economy on Earth today! Many countries try to emulate it, and some sore losers despise it, and some of the really bitter ones will always be trying to tear it down! (Too bad for them! They are doomed to lose).

2. I am optimistic that our Constitution and moral character will ultimately prevail over terrorism, just as courageous and stout Americans have in the past prevailed over Facism and 'Communism' (aka Socialist Totalitarianism). When we do, oil prices will stabilize at sane levels and we can once again enjoy our awesome Amurrican muscle cars without worry