So i was just pondering this the other day, let me know if this makes sense.

1. historicaly gas prices in the US have been much lower than everywhere else
2. The gas crisis in the '70s forced prices up, people freaked out, then inflation came and the real price of gas was once again low.
2. It happened in the '80s, gas rose, people freaked, inflation came, the real price of gas dropped
3. Whats happening now? Gas prices are rising, people are freaking out, inflation will come and the real price of gas will once again fall.

The economy moves in cyclical trends, this same senario will play out many more times in the future.....what do u guys think?

 

I was discussing gas prices with a few friends that live in Europe and the Far East. Yes we still pay a lot less for gas even with the increase in prices. However we also don't have the integrated transit systems they have, and let's face it, while we're buying SUVs and pickup trucks, they're buying econoboxes that get much better fuel economy. Americans are in love with our automobiles and we don't want to give them up. When you consider the inflation rate of other products compared to gasoline, gas is actually quite affordable. (Compare milk or bread prices for example.) The problem is we buy gas by the gallon and consume so much of it on a daily basis that it hits harder than other products. To be brutally honest, what we need to do is tax the hell out of gasoline and use the money generated from that to improve roads and transit systems throughout the country. Only when people have other options than jumping in their car for their daily commute will we see some stabilization to gas prices. (Think about it, it really does make sense.) Sure it may end up raising gas prices to 4 or 5 dollars a gallon, however the prices would stabilize, we'd have better roads and more people would be able to enjoy the use of a network of transit systems connected nationwide. (Please don't talk about government subsidized Amtrak... what a joke.)

I know... I'm rambling.

 

[Cliffs] We aren't Europe and their system isn't gonna just our country.
We aren't gonna drive Civics unless you kick us in the ***** daily. Some peoples ***** can take a lot more than others. [/Cliffs]

The European model works much better than ours I will give you that. But Europe has always been small and densely packed. America has always been big and spread out. I don't think its possible to impose their system on ours. Most of the older cities that could make good use of a transit system have them. They are all either underutilized or over capacity. Either way updating them cost huge amounts of money and would amount to a major lifestyle change for everyone. New cities, like say... Phoenix are so far spread out you would need as many buses as we have cars to begin to get people where they need to go.

Yeah we could, and for the most part should, all get something a bit more efficient and be more conscious of using fuel. That doesen't mean anyone will do it unless they have absolutely positively abandon all hope choice. A huge gas tax hike wont happen with Bush, or anyone else in office.

Second problem, you will have to strangle a whole lot of people in order to pinch the ones that matter. If Genevieve who drives herself and dog in an Escalade on her 40 minute commute is the problem, how high is gas really gonna have to go before her upper middle management husband makes her cut back? Six, seven dollars, probably higher than we would like to admit. Meanwhile Keisha from Oakland had to choose between going to work or taking her kids to daycare two weeks ago... Molly Sue from Mobile had to have Pa move the trailer closer to her job at the IHOP...

What do I suggest? Don't know. If the price drops too fast, say if we subsidize small cars, get ethanol up and running and make public transit better... Then people won't give up their old habits and we'll delay the problem. If we don't blunt the up slope, well hit a recession sooner or later. I think we need a comprehensive plan to stop the increase and ideally get us to a lower price to ensure future growth. Thats probably the only way anyone could afford it.

 

Gas in Europe is high because it is taxed to hell and back. For instance in Germany, they don't have car insurance companies. Car insurance is government owned, and paid for my a tax on gas. The more you drive, the more car insurance you pay/

 

that is a fantastic idea... except how do bad drivers pay higher rates? it cant be fair that all people (assuming same # miles driven) pay the same rate

 

Stupid Cincinnati voters wouldn't even vote for the light rail system, or else I'd be taking that every day of the winter for the most part down to class, etc.

 

Bad drivers get their driving privelages revoked.

 

Gas prices will stay high until the 2006 election. Then go back up and drop a little come fall 2008 then a recession will hit early next decade and with that will bring a real drop in demand along with inflation to drive the real price of gas down.

I hate tax, but if I could be garranteed that a 50¢ gas tax would go to developmet of North American energy independence and mass transit and better roads then I'd be ok with that. The problem is I don't trust the gov't with money and for good reason.

 

Yep. Getting a driver's license in Germany is no joke!

You have to have extensive drivers education (at your own expense), and it's not like the what-color-is-a-stop-sign training we have here. Not by a long shot. It's closer to a government mandated Boundurant class before you get your license. And as mentioned, you can get your license yanked far easier than here.



The US needs a gas tax more than anything. The thing is that we in the US are collectively pretty dumb animals. We have an adversion to anything called taxes. We'd rather see money go to upper level executives, stockholders and their own bank accounts because we'll see more of that money pumped into the economy than we would if it went to the Department of Transportation for better roads, etc.

The world's greatest secret is that United States is the world's LARGEST energy producers, and the THIRD largest producer of Oil, but yet we still import 58% of our energy (very little from the middle east.... another great secret!).

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0920630.html
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html

If we found a way to cut our consumption just 20%, we'd pretty much ravage the value of oil. Like Australia is today, we were mostly oil independent until the late 60s, early 70s.

However, if we cut oil consumption that much, we'd ravage the US oil industry... as well as some states that are using fuel taxes to mask deficits.

Believe it or not, our oil consumption has gone UP since fuel prices started climbing a year ago!


Bits of trivia:
The Japanese military used the United States oil embargo against it (a reaction against previous military expansion) as an excuse to expand into oil rich regions of Asia and to bomb Pearl Harbor and attempt to take US bases and strongholds in the Pacific) in an attempt to disable America's ability to prevent them. They long wanted to do it anyway, but the US's oil embargo gave them political cover.

 

A. Tax gas in the US, proceeds to independent researchers for alternative sources of energy
B. Revoke any tax credits for fat cats making over 200,000 per year and for mega corporations (ESPECIALLY THE OIL INDUSTRY)
C. Revoke the tax break that the Bush Administration gave to small businesses to buy gas guzzling SUVs
D. Invoke tax breaks for those individuals and small businesses who purchase hybrid, diesel, or flex fuel vehicles. Graduate the amount of the tax cut-the better the fuel economy of the vehicle, the bigger the tax break.
E. Use a portion of the gas tax to build an effective E85 and biodiesel infrastructure
F. Bring the terrorists we subsidize with every gallon of gas we buy to their knees without firing a shot by cutting off their funding with our energy independence!

G. Most important, ELECT THE GUYS, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, THAT WILL DO THE ABOVE!!!
Just a few thoughts

 

The worst thing is the infrastructure is already built!

 

You are SO DAMN ON with this thread, brother!

 

Guion, you're 100% right that I'm deathly afraid of more taxes. The government takes 26% of my check every month and I'm only five months removed from college. How much more do they need?

 

I completely agree. But then again, I have been accused of being a socialist and/or communist on more than one occasion. I think that some real investment in some infrastructure would go a long way (even though it would cost us some tax money short term). Mass transit could work here in the states if we didn't half-**** it so badly.

And another random annoying thing are useless stoplights. We have a main street here in Galveston that has eleventy billion lights on it. However they are not timed/synchronized for the main street, and there aren't pressure sensors on the lame side-streets. Left turn lanes with only the protected arrow and no nonprotected green also annoy me. Just as bad are worthless 4 way stop intersections that could be better served with a roundabout. Useless stops and starts multiplied by practically every car times the shear number of stupid intersections in this country adds up to a decent chunk of gas. And something like a roundabout doesn't even cost more money than a regular intersection. I guess us Americans are just to friggin stupid to use a roundabout without running into someone. And God forbid some person that shouldn't have a license in the first place gets in an accident. It's our job to protect dumb people from themselves. It's pretty funny; when I was in Ecuador last year, I was getting directions. I was asked what we called a traffic circle/ roundabout in English. I kinda chuckled to myself because we practically don't have them here (outside of the random town square in the north) and so we don't call them anything

 

Very good points.


Its true a small change in collective behaviour coupled with the right leadership could make oil a non issue in only a few years.

But we won't do it until we absolutely have to...