My general question is this: with the current state of affairs (outsourcing, foreign competition, etc), would those of you in the industry recommend or discourage a mechanical engineer to pursue a technical (not management) career in the auto industry? Does you answer change on whether you are entering the auto industry with a bachelors (BSME), masters (MSME), or doctorate (PhD)? I think many engineers on this site were originally inspired to be engineers because of their love of cars. But is it wise to make a career of it, or are you better off keeping autos as a hobby and pursuing another engineering career path?

What inspires that general question is my own dilemma:

I have a BSME and have been working in a comparatively stable industry for 3 years. But my heart has always remained with automobiles. I have enjoyed working for the past 3 years but have off an on considered getting a masters and moving to autos. I have even asked for similar advice here in the past. But, I am now ready to either finally commit or abandon the idea of an MSME in an automotive field. I would specifically like to research and learn about vehicle dynamics. Stability control, rigid and flexible suspension modeling in programs like ADAMS, x-by-wire controls and haptic feedback, innovative ideas like the Bose adaptive suspension, etc, all are very interesting to me. My main reservation in pursuing this is concern over job availability upon graduation and then long term job stability over my career. The auto industry is so competitive, volatile, and apparently overstaffed, that I question walking away from a good, stable job with a successful company. What I do now is challenging and interesting, but I would classify it as work. It does not inspire passion and enthusiasm like anything auto related. But... after getting an auto related MSME, will I likely be able to get a job designing, calibrating, or testing in the area of vehicle dynamics? I do not intend to be negative/self defeating, but I realize we can't all achieve that magical combination of hard work, natural skill, and good luck that will result in achieving one's dreams. For every inspiring success story of an engineer earning a spot on the Corvette team or in the BMW M group, there are 50X as many examples of individuals giving 110% and still coming up short. They must compromise and spend their career designing window seals. In addition, I know those dream jobs are not always as rosy as outsiders like me would like to believe. High stress, high competition, long hours, red tape, and rushed deadlines may suck any fun out of the job. I am left with indecision.

So in addition to my general question above, in my specific case, should I just be grateful for the good position I already have and continue to enjoy cars at a safe distance, as a hobby? Or push forward for higher risk but potentially greater reward?

I appreciate your opinions.

 

Just remember that for every engineer working on an "exciting" part of the car, there are dozens...even more engineers working on things like seats, door handles, gloveboxes, headliners, floormats and emblems. It's not as bad as it sounds. There are lots of other less interesting things in the world to design.

I spent some time working in interiors, and I learned a lot. Oh, stay out of manufacturing though. It is teh Suxorz1!11!

As far as stability goes...well just make sure you have a thick stomach and that you're the best guy there and you'll be fine.

 

I'm setting on the edge of starting to get my MSME, subscribing.

 

That is my problem though. I know there are a lot of interesting jobs out there in the auto world, but they would all be like my current job. Designing the HVAC, for example, would be interesting and challenging, but I would have trouble getting excited about it. To me, its not worth braving the ups and downs of the auto industry for that. The only justification for me to ride that roller coaster is for a position dealing with my perceived dream job in vehicle dynamics. If getting a job in vehicle dynamics is highly unlikely, I would abandon the idea of stopping work and going to school full time with my own money. Instead, I would investigate other research interests which align with my current company so they pay for some of the schooling.

WERM, not just for me specifically, but would you recommend any new or experienced mechanical engineer explore the auto industry, or would it be better to stay away?

 

Although, I am not an engineer, I am a Business Analyst and have worked for GM and Isuzu. The cool thing about working for a car company is that you are a contributor of something you are passionate about. However, the ebb and flow of the car industry is real and will effect you.

I now work in another industry all together and enjoy it. I get paid more, better job security and (most important) get to spend more time with my family. My enthusiasm has not wavered and I still keep my car as a hobby. The best advice I can give you is to be open about all markets. Pick one that is on the rise and ride that wave to enhance your career.

 

You should just get a degree in Chinese

 

Education is good, but experience is better. If you want to do "meaningful" work in this industry, expect yourself to earn it - simply having a fancy degree will not guarantee you the chance to pick and choose where you work. And even at that, you're still going to be a small cog in a big machine. The day of one-man army chief engineers like Ed Cole are long gone - modern vehicles and systems are far too complex to attack with anything but a large team of smart dudes.

If you're a very smart and creative person who's a hard worker, the auto industry is probably as secure as any other (which isn't saying much in the modern economy). I think that my ability to do my job is directly related to my passion for cars - I'm sure that I have the knowledge to be an effective engineer in other industries, but frankly, I'm pretty sure I'd be poor at my job if my heart wasn't in it.

Bottom line - get as much education as you can afford to get, and then be prepared to pay your dues for several years.

 

They tooker jerrrbs!

(just posting to subscribe)

 

Great way to get your foot in the door and get some experience while you're in college is to co-op. One of the best things I ever did. Although I was a computer nerd, not an engineer, but I was faced with outsourcing in the market, too.

 

It's really up to you. I was always pretty much into cars, and it just so happened that the best job offer I got out of college was to move up to MI and work for one of the big 2.5. About a year later, they spun off parts making operations into a separate company and I went with it. Stability went to hell at that point. I happened to be pretty good at what I did, so I never got cut.

I had about 4 jobs within the company including product design and manufacturing. I had some enormous frustrations, but got to see and do some neat things.

In my case, neither me nor my wife were happy in Michigan, so we decided to hang it up and move back east. If you're already from the Midwest, you'll probably be just fine there, so I wouldn't worry about that part.

I can't tell you whether it's the right decision... you'll have to make up your mind. But if you don't get too deep, you can always switch out to another industry. If you do go, I'd try to get in with an automaker, or at least a major tier 1. Anything less, and I don't think you'll get the exposure or experience you're looking for.

 

What about other positions inside the company that you already work for?

I'm sure they would have other opportunities if you look.

 

I'll second this sentiment - especially with regards to "working" (i.e. industry-based) engineers as opposed to research oriented engineers.

I am a double-degreed engineer (BSIT/BSME) with an apprenticeship in tool and die making. 8 years of university and 4 years of tech school. That's my qualification to post on your topic... so here goes...

As it turns out, I am being courted by another company at this moment (hence my lack of recent posts). Expecting an official offer in the next few days. I am seriously considering the switch, and I will be going from a tier-1 to another tier-1 if I accept, but this new company is MUCH smaller and is more dedicated to automotive products. I have some reservations, but they are literally setting the sky on fire. They are planning growth of 50% in 24 months, and have already secured 40% ($9mm of $24mm planned) of their planned growth in the first 3 months of this year! They have been up-trending for 3 years now, and there seems to be no cieling in sight. So 1st off, don't let the current trend in the US automarket scare you away - people in America WILL drive something for many more years - you just need to be where the market is going, not where it was.

The reason they want me is FOR WHAT I HAVE DONE, not my paperwork. I was sought-out due to my reputation, by word of mouth. They want someone who is a go-getter, and can deliver the goods. This is where it goes back to what Eric said - my degrees only opened the door for a chance, it is my daily performance that has propelled me to better places after the door was opened, both inside a company and also with outsiders looking in at me.
I personally give working experience MORE clout in a production or industrial environment. Likewise, I give education more clout in a research environment. But in either one, they will be looking for someone who can execute, not just talk or give presentations about it.

Last note - it is my opinion that you will be served JUST as well with a BSME if you want to be hands-on and/or look for any path of management. In fact, your BSME will start you well towards an MBA if you later choose the management path in a good-sized company. On the other hand, if you really are into research, the more education, the better. PhD's are the epitome of research in our businesses, and they rarely ever end-up as CEOs or Directors. They crave the lab, libraries, and internet. They can have great salaries - often as much or more than their managers (which made for some hard feelings in my current company), but they are typically so abstract that they are not well-suited to run a business or manage people.

So in my opinion - to summarize - just get your BSME and go to work and start building a rep and a name for yourself if you want to stay in touch with hands-on design and development of real-world parts and peices. You are likely to "adjust" your career to suit both yourself and the environment as it changes, and leave yourself open to management (via an MBA) later on if you choose it. If you go for the MSME, you will likely be fighting for the same job as a guy with a BSME and EXPERIENCE, and quite often the experience will be the deciding factor because companies today are looking for people who can execute and have proven it. If you go MSME, I'd actually recommend the extra 2 years and get the PhD. It will open the research side of the equation FAR more than a BS or MS, and it will eliminate a lot of competition - but the downside is that you will be likely to find work in research facilities or universities, your work will be abstract (developing new technology instead of applying it to the real world), and you will not be in a mainstream that offers frequent raises, promotions, or varied career paths inside the same company. And unless you can demonstrate that you are a "brain" that also has social skills, you are not likely to be managing many people or big divisions, but concentrated research groups instead.

Trying to coach a guy on 20 years experience in the field, and how he might plan his life, is hard to do in a few paragraphs, but I hope this lights a few fires for you! Either way - good luck!

 

Well, just to fill in those of you who might care, I accepted the offer last week.
I will begin working for a new company on 23Apr07.

My new company does manufacturing of thermal and acoustical control products for the automotive industry.

It was an incredible feeling to have someone come after you with zest and vigor, instead of having to prove yourself to them. They had insider information about my skills and capabilities, and they had decided that they wanted me. Very flattering and very humbling at the same time.

78montecarlo, I hope that whatever your decision, you find it successful.
Having just gone through the process of interviewing and accepting another position, I can tell you for certain that your work experience and reputation CAN and WILL be as significant (if not more so) that your actual degree when it comes to getting the best jobs. As said before, the degree only opens the door - it's everything else that you demonstrate that determines how far through the door you can go.

Best of luck!

 

congrats on the new job!

 

Congratulations, man! It's always a great feel to have someone seek out your skills.

So, does the name of your new employer start and end with an "L"?