Any you nailed my point exactly. Dealer markups don't mean anything, and neither do the discounts that people often bring up when comparing MSRP. Sluggish sales means discounts, hot sales mean markups....This brings us back to the point of my post.

Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price is the ONLY yardstick that matters in any pricing issue or comparison involving automobiles. Someone comparing a car with discounts in their area with a sticker price of another is just as silly as that $43,000 marked up GXP being compared to another brand's MSRP.

Anybody can come up with a story of how their brother's, nephew's, cousin's buddy got 30% off the selling price of that new car. But in the rare instances where they aren't making it up or exaggerating or suffering amnesia on the original markup, that dealer selling price isn't consistant across the US in every market, let alone every city or even every dealer.

A base Z28 Camaro in 2002 had a msrp of about $22K. At the time, GM was giving back something like 2K nationwide. GMAC also had a deal, but only if you financed through them. Then some markets had additional incentives to bost Chevrolet's sales in that market for a period of the year. Someone in the right market at the right time, financing through GMAC might get that base Z28 for $18K + tax & license. The person who went through their own bank might have to pay $20K. Someone buying one that was gathering dust and snow on the dealer's lot might have gotten it for $17K, while at the same time, someone in San Diego might have needed the local dealer to trade another for one, and paid $25K.

MSRP is the standard.

 

This is kind of confusing, probably because I've never bought a new (GM) car before, but maybe in the near future.
So if a certain GM vehicle I've been looking at has a $30K window sticker, and the invoice price is around $26K-$27K. I Called the dealer and there is a $2K incentive and a $1K rebate for GM loyalty if you own a '99 or newer model GM vehicle.

My question is, if I can get this vehicle at or close to invoice price does the $3K rebate come off of that price?

 

In word, yes. "Discount" and "rebate" are two seperate things. The discount from MSRP comes out of the dealer's potential profit while the rebates come from the manufacturer's pocket.

So MSRP-discount-rebate=your final price. Some states charge tax before the rebate is deducted while some charge tax minus the rebate amount.

 

Okay, I got caught up on a side point then. I remembered that Z/28s were sold for well under sticker even on the west coast. I think we actually got more incentives out here, as the Z/28 makes a great year-round car, whereas most upper-midwesterners seem to limit them to non-winter months. So it was never going to be a high volume car in Minnesota, so why discount it? But I have no data to back up my claim....

I would say MSRP minus incentives. For a while, GM would put incentives on a car as soon as it came on the market.

You certainly can't use dealer markup prices, though. One dealer may mark every car at a discount, where across town, a dealer would put the infamous "additional dealer markup" on every car. After bargaining, though, both would likely sell at the same price. Not always, however. Anderson Chevrolet would sometimes carry ads for the Camaro that other Chevy dealers would not match.

I bought my '98 at one of their $4000-off sales during the strike (which was over Camaro brakes IIRC).

 

We were talking Bonnieville GXP not Grand Prix. I dont know if it will hit 35K-50K. Its just a tough sell right now unless gas goes back below $2.50 a gallon and stays there. It also has zero name recognition, the G6 isn't the best car on the market and seems to rate at the bottom of its class in comparisons, is the name G8 just a bigger version of the same car?

They are going to need some good marketing or a movie to help the car out. Will it be worth it to only move 35k to 50k a year?

 

Yes.