Ford makes $100M profit in 1Q
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
And that's across the sea. If we're talking space, we use satellite technology (and now we have relatively affordable satellite phones).
I believe I've used more examples in my post than you have with your snickering emoticons... and look no Ph.D beside my name.
Guess where the communication industry would be if they increased their fees in the same way as the oil prices have increased? Enter >>>> the emoticon >>>>
Yet they still manage to make the ever evolving technology affordable for the masses... and unlike the drivel in your statement, we are talking space age technology!!!Go ahead, flame me but at least back up your open ended statements with some hard facts.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,597
From: Mack and Bewick
Funny that the telecommunications industry takes the opposite view. High speed, high tech, cables to handle increased traffic, with extra capacity built in... which leads to cheaper communication.
And that's across the sea. If we're talking space, we use satellite technology (and now we have relatively affordable satellite phones).
I believe I've used more examples in my post than you have with your snickering emoticons... and look no Ph.D beside my name.
Guess where the communication industry would be if they increased their fees in the same way as the oil prices have increased? Enter >>>> the emoticon >>>> Yet they still manage to make the ever evolving technology affordable for the masses... and unlike the drivel in your statement, we are talking space age technology!!!
Go ahead, flame me but at least back up your open ended statements with some hard facts.
And that's across the sea. If we're talking space, we use satellite technology (and now we have relatively affordable satellite phones).
I believe I've used more examples in my post than you have with your snickering emoticons... and look no Ph.D beside my name.
Guess where the communication industry would be if they increased their fees in the same way as the oil prices have increased? Enter >>>> the emoticon >>>>
Yet they still manage to make the ever evolving technology affordable for the masses... and unlike the drivel in your statement, we are talking space age technology!!!Go ahead, flame me but at least back up your open ended statements with some hard facts.
But, the million dollar a day drilling ship, which was one of the most advanced, and designed for what was at the time, "deep" sea drilling, can't anchor in 4000 feet of water. So they had to have someone whip up a program that monitored a dozen weather feeds, matched them to the ships GPS, so they could predict wind and current changes hours in advance, so that the ship could constantly adjust engines and headings just so it could keep still.
Which is important when you're trying to get a 4000 ft long tube through moving water that's putting 1,800 psi on it. Then you have to fit about five smaller ones inside that one, and start partitioning them off every so many feet to make sure all that pressure doesen't come back up.
Then another 4000 ft of drill string, but before you start drilling you have to make a fluid that can be pumped all the way down there, lubricate and cool the drill, while breaking up rock, without getting so thick you can't pump it back up, even with the temperature varying greatly.
But yeah, keep that up for 20,000 feet and you've got oil! Probably...
Mind you, I never said there was 1:1 ratio between aquisition and price increase, but I would call that slightly more than "digging a hole," and if you don't than I need to be working for you.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Chevron's lastest dig in the Gulf of Mexico is like 200 miles off shore and to get to the oil field, you've got to go through 4000 feet of water, just to get to the rock, which is there 20,000 feet of.
But, the million dollar a day drilling ship, which was one of the most advanced, and designed for what was at the time, "deep" sea drilling, can't anchor in 4000 feet of water. So they had to have someone whip up a program that monitored a dozen weather feeds, matched them to the ships GPS, so they could predict wind and current changes hours in advance, so that the ship could constantly adjust engines and headings just so it could keep still.
Which is important when you're trying to get a 4000 ft long tube through moving water that's putting 1,800 psi on it. Then you have to fit about five smaller ones inside that one, and start partitioning them off every so many feet to make sure all that pressure doesen't come back up.
Then another 4000 ft of drill string, but before you start drilling you have to make a fluid that can be pumped all the way down there, lubricate and cool the drill, while breaking up rock, without getting so thick you can't pump it back up, even with the temperature varying greatly.
But yeah, keep that up for 20,000 feet and you've got oil! Probably...
Mind you, I never said there was 1:1 ratio between aquisition and price increase, but I would call that slightly more than "digging a hole," and if you don't than I need to be working for you.
But, the million dollar a day drilling ship, which was one of the most advanced, and designed for what was at the time, "deep" sea drilling, can't anchor in 4000 feet of water. So they had to have someone whip up a program that monitored a dozen weather feeds, matched them to the ships GPS, so they could predict wind and current changes hours in advance, so that the ship could constantly adjust engines and headings just so it could keep still.
Which is important when you're trying to get a 4000 ft long tube through moving water that's putting 1,800 psi on it. Then you have to fit about five smaller ones inside that one, and start partitioning them off every so many feet to make sure all that pressure doesen't come back up.
Then another 4000 ft of drill string, but before you start drilling you have to make a fluid that can be pumped all the way down there, lubricate and cool the drill, while breaking up rock, without getting so thick you can't pump it back up, even with the temperature varying greatly.
But yeah, keep that up for 20,000 feet and you've got oil! Probably...
Mind you, I never said there was 1:1 ratio between aquisition and price increase, but I would call that slightly more than "digging a hole," and if you don't than I need to be working for you.
DWray I believe works on one (FWIR) that just went online and is pumping massive amounts of oil.
These oil companies make huge profits, but when you are looking at 1 oil rig that cost several billion dollars those profits get used up pretty quick. Their profit margin is not that large and I blame INVESTORS and INFLATION for the big increases in oil costs.
I totally expect oil to be based on the Euro in the next few years. I also see a crash in the oil market as well, as I believe investors have pushed it up too high just like the housing market.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,977
From: SeVa
--->thats the end of that to SS above and this is the general reply below<---
Ultimately other than the slippery slope of heavy government intervention, I'm indifferent to the fate of big oil. Its booming today, but could go bust at some point in the future and possibly it could be triggered by the reduction in demand combined with speculators flocking away from oil to the next quick buck.
And speaking of monopolies, if they are in fact, monopolies why aren't anti-trust laws kicking in and busting things up (atleast where such laws exsist)?
Last edited by bossco; Apr 25, 2008 at 11:53 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,977
From: SeVa
You know we agree 99% of the time on things, but I have to divest from your position on this one.
Everyone thinks it will take higher prices to force alternatives to become plausible - me included.
But...
How do you think the development of those alternatives will take place?
How will they be funded?
How will the infrastructure be paid for?
How will it be implemented?
How will it be regulated (for safety - NOT price)?
Who will regulate it and pay for the regulation expenses?
Now... just stop and think how awesome it is when the government hands out an award for research that is like $2-million or even $5-million to cancer research or environmental research. How often do we hear of such committments from the government? Not often really.
Well, what could be done with $5 or $10-million towards researching a new way to grow crops and produxce ethanol? Should it come from the government (i.e. we taxpayers)? Or should it come from the government (i.e. from a pot filled by windfall taxation)? Either way, it comes from he government.
Now...
In the last 7 years, just how much has Exxon, BP, and all the others been investing in alternative fuel development? $billions/year? If so, where is it?
How much have they contributed to actually bringing practical solutions to market?
Have they been building refineries specifically for ethanol?
Have they invested in alternative solutions to grain - like switchgrass and even tobacco?
Distribution channels for alternative fuels?
Charging stations for electrics? Hybrids?
In my mind, they are not doing NEARLY enough, and frankly it's not in their best interest to. It would be destroying their monopolistic situation that they have worked so hard to achieve in the last 7 years.
Why try to kill my own profit center?
The lame commercials like the one Shell has been running on satellite for the last month touts their "lowest sulfur emission diesel fuel ever made". F-ing great. So they have pioneered the lowest sulfur emissions ever... too bad I can't afford it so I'll just run french-fry oil in my truck and call it a day.
I'd like to have seen the money they have spent on that ad alone go to some university for development of "something substantial".
IN MY OWN OPINION - they have had PLENTY of time to demonstrate good efforts and start showing us some solutions, but every Exxon and Shell and BP that I drive into looks just like the same one did 7 years ago - except for the price I am paying and their fancy new electronic pumps that melt your debit cards for you. In short - I ain't seeing it. I'm seeing MUCH more from the OEM carmakers and private investors (let's pick on ***** Nelson for a second!
), and that is simply SAD.
THEREFORE I am 100% for a windfall tax that will take the gimungous heaps of money from the mongers that are becoming absurdly wealthy and apply that money towards development and implementation of alternative fuels and modes of transportation. If they won't do it on their own accord, then they need to be "helped" to understand that killing the other 90% of America's business and economy without any consciencious guilt is simply wrong. Furthermore, putting the elderly in a position where they will choose between freezing to death or dying from lack of medication is wrong. Having children go to bed hungry because Mommy has to drive to work tomorrow is wrong.
It's a tough call, but I have got to lean towards the governmental intervention approach on this one. I never ever wish for any control or limitations on a creative mind or their potential to earn, but as their earnings increase, so should their concern for the well-being of their fellow man, and so should their philanthropy. My failure to see this kind of philanthropy and concern for America is why I am bitter and want to see the intervention. There is simply no sense in a company making that much profit in the condition our nation is in right now.
Sorry.
Lastly - they shouldn't even consider trying to hide the profits somewhere else so hey don't have to pay. It's so easy to calculate barrels imported versus gallons sold that even a government official could do it.
Companies are definitely leary of cooking the books after the last few years of corporate downfalls.
Everyone thinks it will take higher prices to force alternatives to become plausible - me included.
But...
How do you think the development of those alternatives will take place?
How will they be funded?
How will the infrastructure be paid for?
How will it be implemented?
How will it be regulated (for safety - NOT price)?
Who will regulate it and pay for the regulation expenses?
Now... just stop and think how awesome it is when the government hands out an award for research that is like $2-million or even $5-million to cancer research or environmental research. How often do we hear of such committments from the government? Not often really.
Well, what could be done with $5 or $10-million towards researching a new way to grow crops and produxce ethanol? Should it come from the government (i.e. we taxpayers)? Or should it come from the government (i.e. from a pot filled by windfall taxation)? Either way, it comes from he government.
Now...
In the last 7 years, just how much has Exxon, BP, and all the others been investing in alternative fuel development? $billions/year? If so, where is it?
How much have they contributed to actually bringing practical solutions to market?
Have they been building refineries specifically for ethanol?
Have they invested in alternative solutions to grain - like switchgrass and even tobacco?
Distribution channels for alternative fuels?
Charging stations for electrics? Hybrids?
In my mind, they are not doing NEARLY enough, and frankly it's not in their best interest to. It would be destroying their monopolistic situation that they have worked so hard to achieve in the last 7 years.
Why try to kill my own profit center?
The lame commercials like the one Shell has been running on satellite for the last month touts their "lowest sulfur emission diesel fuel ever made". F-ing great. So they have pioneered the lowest sulfur emissions ever... too bad I can't afford it so I'll just run french-fry oil in my truck and call it a day.
I'd like to have seen the money they have spent on that ad alone go to some university for development of "something substantial".IN MY OWN OPINION - they have had PLENTY of time to demonstrate good efforts and start showing us some solutions, but every Exxon and Shell and BP that I drive into looks just like the same one did 7 years ago - except for the price I am paying and their fancy new electronic pumps that melt your debit cards for you. In short - I ain't seeing it. I'm seeing MUCH more from the OEM carmakers and private investors (let's pick on ***** Nelson for a second!
), and that is simply SAD.THEREFORE I am 100% for a windfall tax that will take the gimungous heaps of money from the mongers that are becoming absurdly wealthy and apply that money towards development and implementation of alternative fuels and modes of transportation. If they won't do it on their own accord, then they need to be "helped" to understand that killing the other 90% of America's business and economy without any consciencious guilt is simply wrong. Furthermore, putting the elderly in a position where they will choose between freezing to death or dying from lack of medication is wrong. Having children go to bed hungry because Mommy has to drive to work tomorrow is wrong.
It's a tough call, but I have got to lean towards the governmental intervention approach on this one. I never ever wish for any control or limitations on a creative mind or their potential to earn, but as their earnings increase, so should their concern for the well-being of their fellow man, and so should their philanthropy. My failure to see this kind of philanthropy and concern for America is why I am bitter and want to see the intervention. There is simply no sense in a company making that much profit in the condition our nation is in right now.
Sorry.Lastly - they shouldn't even consider trying to hide the profits somewhere else so hey don't have to pay. It's so easy to calculate barrels imported versus gallons sold that even a government official could do it.
Companies are definitely leary of cooking the books after the last few years of corporate downfalls.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
The govt is fighting wars that shouldn't be waged... Who pays for it? It's 'we' guys who are paying for it because the excise has basically doubled since Iraq was "conquered". Why would the government intervene when the price increase is basically funding all it's 'programs'. When individuals in power happen to have vested interests in oil do you expect them to change their mantra?
As others have asked the basic question, what are the oil companies doing to help ease the burden on families, to help develop an infrastructure to cheaper energy, to provide solutions to problems we are currently witnessing? The answer is clearly 'zilch'. It's the automotive companies that are seeking these solutions but that's without the help of big oil.
Other industries have to be innovative to stay alive but big oil can sit back and not do a damn thing and make more money. You tell me how that is fair? And how you can defend their methods is beyond me. It's like someone defending Satan.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Might I also remind supporters of the free economy that you are here because you are car enthusiasts, not oil enthusiasts. Oil is a necessity only because the car has become dependent on it. We did have steam back in the old days. The oil companies are rich because of the automobile. Not the other way around.
If you still believe my comments are considered 'whining', then I challenge all you Mustang (that's you bossco) and Camaro lovers to do the same as I've done... as a salute to BIG OIL. Like selling your V8s!!! I bet you, most of you won't have the *****. I'm definitely doing my part. I don't just talk, I walk the walk.
Hopefully when sanity prevails, I'll hop into a Camaro. Until then, I'd happily revert to racing my cars on PS3.
If you still believe my comments are considered 'whining', then I challenge all you Mustang (that's you bossco) and Camaro lovers to do the same as I've done... as a salute to BIG OIL. Like selling your V8s!!! I bet you, most of you won't have the *****. I'm definitely doing my part. I don't just talk, I walk the walk.
Hopefully when sanity prevails, I'll hop into a Camaro. Until then, I'd happily revert to racing my cars on PS3.
Last edited by SSbaby; Apr 26, 2008 at 06:43 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
My angle is much in line with SS'.
There is no way in creation you can be an honest car enthusiast while also take a lackadaisical attitude towards towards oil companies.
We have a situation today where there is NO shortage of oil.
There is NOTHING going on in the world that is creating any shortage of oil or justifies the prices we are paying today compared to last year.
Oil companies are running up the most massive profits any corperation has run up in history.
Those high prices are making YOU pay more. But instead of the extra money you're paying going to roads and bridges, that extra money is lining the pockets of those who get bonuses and 7 figure incomes so they can invest in something else that is not aimed to make the economy better, but is aimed to make the best return on investment!
It is absolutely mind blowing how people here making less than $100,000 dollars per year (some of you ALOT less), complaining about the taxes they have to pay, how government is evil, clueless that even basic services cost money, clueless that any financial shortfall is not only going to be borrowed from mostly China in exchange for our jobs and their political influence in our country, but also WE (that's including you anti-tax people) are going to be paying them what we borrowed PLUS intrest!!!!
Now, tell me again why a company that earns more in a few days than ALL of the US car manufacturers earn in an entire year should continue to have any sort of tax break, or an industry that has invested next to nothing of their profits be free from increased taxes and fees to help the United States of America reduce it's oil dependence via helping the US auto industry create vehicles to reach that goal, to set up an alternate fuel infrastructure so that people might actually be able to use vehicles designed for E85, Hydrogen, Natural Gas, or other fuels we currently have available?
It's dowright stunning how the same people who view the same government that maintains our infrastructure, keeps our food & water safe, helps us get our kids educated, finances our military, prisons, and law enfoircement, and pretty much everything we take for granted every hour we're alive as a wasteful evil entity, yet are so gullible to think that the individual wealthy person is so eager and honest that they are going to use any and every tax break and earned income for the good of the nation instead of items that are going to give them the best return on their money and items that will give them tax breaks.
I don't know about you, but if I got an extra $56,000 free tax break on my 1.4 million dollar income, I would take that money and buy up some oil... which would help drive up the price farther.... and make me even more money. There's also quire a few special funds I could buy that I'd need a minimum of $100K to get into that earn a far higher yield than mear mortals can recieve.
As I said before, some of the attitudes here are priceless.
There is no way in creation you can be an honest car enthusiast while also take a lackadaisical attitude towards towards oil companies.
We have a situation today where there is NO shortage of oil.
There is NOTHING going on in the world that is creating any shortage of oil or justifies the prices we are paying today compared to last year.
Oil companies are running up the most massive profits any corperation has run up in history.
Those high prices are making YOU pay more. But instead of the extra money you're paying going to roads and bridges, that extra money is lining the pockets of those who get bonuses and 7 figure incomes so they can invest in something else that is not aimed to make the economy better, but is aimed to make the best return on investment!
It is absolutely mind blowing how people here making less than $100,000 dollars per year (some of you ALOT less), complaining about the taxes they have to pay, how government is evil, clueless that even basic services cost money, clueless that any financial shortfall is not only going to be borrowed from mostly China in exchange for our jobs and their political influence in our country, but also WE (that's including you anti-tax people) are going to be paying them what we borrowed PLUS intrest!!!!
Now, tell me again why a company that earns more in a few days than ALL of the US car manufacturers earn in an entire year should continue to have any sort of tax break, or an industry that has invested next to nothing of their profits be free from increased taxes and fees to help the United States of America reduce it's oil dependence via helping the US auto industry create vehicles to reach that goal, to set up an alternate fuel infrastructure so that people might actually be able to use vehicles designed for E85, Hydrogen, Natural Gas, or other fuels we currently have available?
It's dowright stunning how the same people who view the same government that maintains our infrastructure, keeps our food & water safe, helps us get our kids educated, finances our military, prisons, and law enfoircement, and pretty much everything we take for granted every hour we're alive as a wasteful evil entity, yet are so gullible to think that the individual wealthy person is so eager and honest that they are going to use any and every tax break and earned income for the good of the nation instead of items that are going to give them the best return on their money and items that will give them tax breaks.
I don't know about you, but if I got an extra $56,000 free tax break on my 1.4 million dollar income, I would take that money and buy up some oil... which would help drive up the price farther.... and make me even more money. There's also quire a few special funds I could buy that I'd need a minimum of $100K to get into that earn a far higher yield than mear mortals can recieve.
As I said before, some of the attitudes here are priceless.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 140
From: Dacula, GA
I don't know about you, but if I got an extra $56,000 free tax break on my 1.4 million dollar income, I would take that money and buy up some oil... which would help drive up the price farther.... and make me even more money. There's also quire a few special funds I could buy that I'd need a minimum of $100K to get into that earn a far higher yield than mear mortals can recieve.
FSENX FNARX FSAGX
Long-term gain for the IRA's & brokerage account sure does take the sting out of the short-term pain at the pump. That's where almost all the profit goes back to, you know, the shareholders.
Last edited by Dest98; Apr 26, 2008 at 06:22 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Points well taken, and by your observation I see a bunch of companies that are no different from domestic auto manufacturers in the 70's and a certain software developer, namely that they are short sighted and arrogant, creating a position that could leave them in the dust if and when something causes a drastic shift in the oil business.
The oil companies will be the sole energy providers of the future. They won't have any competition. They will be impervious to any "drastic shifts in the oil business" or any other business for that matter.
THEY WILL OWN BASICALLY EVERYTHING with so much wealth at their disposal.
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Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 535
From: Gotham City
An Iranian ship got too close to a US Naval ship the other day, so the US shot at them. Boom the price per barrel went up another $3/barrel...
This thread makes me think of another thread from last month that just makes me shake my head:
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=585008
This thread makes me think of another thread from last month that just makes me shake my head:
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=585008
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,977
From: SeVa
If you still believe my comments are considered 'whining', then I challenge all you Mustang (that's you bossco) and Camaro lovers to do the same as I've done... as a salute to BIG OIL. Like selling your V8s!!! I bet you, most of you won't have the *****. I'm definitely doing my part. I don't just talk, I walk the walk.
Hopefully when sanity prevails, I'll hop into a Camaro. Until then, I'd happily revert to racing my cars on PS3.
Hopefully when sanity prevails, I'll hop into a Camaro. Until then, I'd happily revert to racing my cars on PS3.