ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
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From: Milton, FL
ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
this is passing down the rumor mill, any details or is this just BS?
http://www.newtechspy.com/articles/hydraulichybrid.html
http://www.newtechspy.com/articles/hydraulichybrid.html
---Ford is developing a new form of automotive propulsion, and the implications for the American Auto Industry are huge. The Hydraulic Hybrid could be the greatest innovation since the internal combustion engine itself, and Ford is on the inside track with its F-150 Hybrid. New Tech Spy Has learned details about the system that are simply amazing and could put Ford in a commanding position in the fiercely competitive full size pickup market.
---The Idea behind the current crop of Hybrid cars is well known; the cars main energy comes from gasoline which recharges batteries that move the car at low speeds. Hydraulic Hybrids work in the same manner, only instead of batteries, excess energy is stored in hydraulic cylinders.That in itself is not revolutionary, except for the fact that Nickel Metal Hydride batteries used today are not an efficient way to store energy, and hydraulic storage blows them away with 3X the efficiency. Even next generation Lithium Ion batteries do not come close to Hydraulic Energy Storage.
---The standard F-150 has a curb weight of about 4800 lbs., which is 65% greater than theToyota Prius, yet incredibly the Hydraulic F-150 with a continuously variable transmission matches the Prius with 60mpg city rating, that’s an amazing 400% increase over its gasoline version.
---The F-150 makes for a perfect host for Hydraulic Hybrid technology because of its height and body on frame construction, adding this system to smaller vehicles will be challenging, but with those kind of numbers small vehicles as we know them may become obsolete...The Hydraulic F-150 is currently scheduled for launch in August of 2008, can Ford work out all the bugs by then? The people are waiting for Ford to come through in the clutch.
---The Idea behind the current crop of Hybrid cars is well known; the cars main energy comes from gasoline which recharges batteries that move the car at low speeds. Hydraulic Hybrids work in the same manner, only instead of batteries, excess energy is stored in hydraulic cylinders.That in itself is not revolutionary, except for the fact that Nickel Metal Hydride batteries used today are not an efficient way to store energy, and hydraulic storage blows them away with 3X the efficiency. Even next generation Lithium Ion batteries do not come close to Hydraulic Energy Storage.
---The standard F-150 has a curb weight of about 4800 lbs., which is 65% greater than theToyota Prius, yet incredibly the Hydraulic F-150 with a continuously variable transmission matches the Prius with 60mpg city rating, that’s an amazing 400% increase over its gasoline version.
---The F-150 makes for a perfect host for Hydraulic Hybrid technology because of its height and body on frame construction, adding this system to smaller vehicles will be challenging, but with those kind of numbers small vehicles as we know them may become obsolete...The Hydraulic F-150 is currently scheduled for launch in August of 2008, can Ford work out all the bugs by then? The people are waiting for Ford to come through in the clutch.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,650
From: Indianapolis, IN
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
I seem to recall that they showed a concept a year or two ago, IIRC, that had a hydraulic hybrid system. Might have been in that Tonka looking Super Duty concept? Something like that? I have not heard much of it since then, certainly haven't heard production plans (though it would be cool to see it work).
It would be weird to see a 60 city/21 hwy fuel economy rating, though.
It would be weird to see a 60 city/21 hwy fuel economy rating, though.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,022
From: Newhall, CA USA
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
Sounds like complete BS.
They're essentially saying that they are storing energy via a mechanical system (hydraulic cylinders--WTF?) rather than a chemical system. How do they do it? Springs? Fluids are incompressible, so something would have to maintain the pressure in the system. And even if you could, what would the pressure work against? Would it drive an impeller?
I don't know--my engineering degree may be too far out of date--but it sounds like wishful thinking.
They're essentially saying that they are storing energy via a mechanical system (hydraulic cylinders--WTF?) rather than a chemical system. How do they do it? Springs? Fluids are incompressible, so something would have to maintain the pressure in the system. And even if you could, what would the pressure work against? Would it drive an impeller?
I don't know--my engineering degree may be too far out of date--but it sounds like wishful thinking.
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From: Milton, FL
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
Originally Posted by centric
Sounds like complete BS.
They're essentially saying that they are storing energy via a mechanical system (hydraulic cylinders--WTF?) rather than a chemical system. How do they do it? Springs? Fluids are incompressible, so something would have to maintain the pressure in the system. And even if you could, what would the pressure work against? Would it drive an impeller?
I don't know--my engineering degree may be too far out of date--but it sounds like wishful thinking.
They're essentially saying that they are storing energy via a mechanical system (hydraulic cylinders--WTF?) rather than a chemical system. How do they do it? Springs? Fluids are incompressible, so something would have to maintain the pressure in the system. And even if you could, what would the pressure work against? Would it drive an impeller?
I don't know--my engineering degree may be too far out of date--but it sounds like wishful thinking.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,650
From: Indianapolis, IN
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
Here is something about the concept. Looks like it was the Tonka truck, though it was back in '02 (geez, time flies!!).
http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=10636
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...a/default.aspx
http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=10636
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...a/default.aspx
Last edited by 96_Camaro_B4C; Feb 13, 2006 at 02:50 PM.
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Posts: 1,022
From: Newhall, CA USA
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
Originally Posted by anasazi
Still kinda fuzzy on what the system would work against, but OK.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,022
From: Newhall, CA USA
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
Originally Posted by 96_Camaro_B4C
Here is something about the concept. Looks like it was the Tonka truck, though it was back in '02 (geez, time flies!!).
http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=10636
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...a/default.aspx
http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=10636
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...a/default.aspx
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Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,320
From: Memphis
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
That would be amazingly great if it were true.
Yeah... it would be funny to see people preferring to take the stop and go route to save fuel economy rather than the highway.
Yeah... it would be funny to see people preferring to take the stop and go route to save fuel economy rather than the highway.
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Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
Originally Posted by Threxx
That would be amazingly great if it were true.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
I understand how they do it. But I'm still not sure about the Feasability. Accumulators are not small, 5000psi Hydraulic systems are fierce (Accident Scenarios?), and you'd probably have to have a High Pressure Hydraulic Filter = $$$.
Interesting, but I don't think it's the future.
Interesting, but I don't think it's the future.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,650
From: Indianapolis, IN
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
Probably more feasible on big trucks, which is where they seem to be heading first. When I searched for the links above, I also saw some regarding Ford and the EPA working on a system for bigger trucks (like UPS trucks, and bigger).
Probably makes more sense in that type of environment, at least at first.
Probably makes more sense in that type of environment, at least at first.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,712
From: Ontario
Re: ford F-150 60mpg city for MY2009
I don't buy it. Like Chrome said, accumulators are not small or easy to make safe without weighing a tonne. And I just can't see them having the energy density of a Lithium Ion battery. Think about it this way: if you have 20 gallons worth of accumulators, that's only 20 gallons worth of stored energy to propel the hydraulic motors. At a typical hydraulic motor's gpm, that might last a couple of miles. How can that help you get to 60mpg?
Also, hydraulic drives are much less efficient than electric drives, meaning whatever energy you store in the accumulators, you get less payback at the tires.
I dunno, hydraulics aren't my thing so maybe I'm all wet here. But common sense says it doesn't add up.
Also, hydraulic drives are much less efficient than electric drives, meaning whatever energy you store in the accumulators, you get less payback at the tires.
I dunno, hydraulics aren't my thing so maybe I'm all wet here. But common sense says it doesn't add up.
