No Evoq was intended for Y body. Dave hill wanted the N* in a caddy for the C5. "Red all Corvettes are Red" it will tell this plain and clear. Infact some of the earliest drawings of what became XLR were called EldoRODO and came out about 97.

 

The c5 and c6 corvette's are also space frame cars, in fact they mimic the fiero with a rear mounted tranny as well. One look at their weight tells you the advantage this type of platform holds. Kappa could very well become one of GM's most important platforms.

 

Is there a possibility of Simga, as we know it now, to just be handed down to everyone, while there is an updated Sigma chassis that goes to Caddy only? That would give us 2 RWD chassis taht share parts and manufacturing, only Sigma2 would be exclusive to Caddy?

 

Once again, Don't get yourselves in turmoil over GM's RWD rumors. The situation as is getting across here is grossly exaggerated.

The whole story isn't out. Heck, I don't even have the whole story. But these things are still constant: Holden did the basis of the car we know as Zeta, and the vehicles are still due to debut here on time. Everything else is simply "headache enducers". Ignore them till someone says something's cancelled.


At the moment, Kappa is nothing more than the Solstice, the Sky, and Opel's version (has to be sold in Europe before the new pedestrian safety standards kick in).

Zeta is simply a structure that can be configured in multiple ways and can be built in the same plant on the same assembly line and can contain multiple sub-assemblies (think of the Ford Fox body, or better yet, "Lego" blocks).

I know a people who were directly involved with the car here in the US and a person who actually drove one of the cars in Australia. I also know people who are in the pipeline on this car. The only thing I can say is the project isn't being terminated or dropped, and isn't anywhere near as critical as is being made out.

...And the idea that Holden is to blame is ludicrious. It's a smokescreen. Remember, GM-North America was working with Holden on this from day one. GM-North America is the parent company. GM-North America is going to be the prime seller of Zeta. Oz may buy up 100,000 Kappas (and export another 50K), but North America will likely grab 500,000.

The idea's to make an existing chassis flexible enough to be used on a wide variety of RWD & AWD cars in a low cost way, not to create a whole new chassis out of thin air.

BTW: Isn't it curious how GM can make the CTS sedan, the slightly bigger STS sedan, and a crossover SUV off of a single chassis, even on the same assembly line? Isn't it also curious how Holden's AWD system fits in an STS? Good God, how obvious does a hint have to be here, nowadays?

GM needs to squeeze money where they can, so they are re-evaluating just about everything (even low-cost Kappa was scaled down... remember how we were going to be flooded with Kappa variants by the end of the decade?). The General isn't in as good of financial shape as they were 2 years ago when all this got going.

Let things pan out.


Do you stay up late nights thinking of ways to sound so absurd, or is your DNA simply arranged that way? The model year changes are the result of GM-NORTH AMERICA. Holden's VEs are right on schedule.

Besides, GM-NA is scaling back it's plans to use Zeta. You can't really blame them. The 7 year old FWD Impala is still selling close to 200,000 cars per year, and GM just got around to give it a new body. They aren't going to drop the new body less than 3 years after they bring it out.


Wrong on all counts:

1. As I mentioned in my not so obvious hint above, Sigma spawned an SUV, the CTS, and the wider STS. Like any company, GM is always on the lookout to finding cheaper ways to do things (look guys, another clue ).

2. Sigma's expense is related to the no compromise components that Cadillac won from GM in the late 90s when Zarella was won over to Cadillac's efforts to become a world class car, and helped bankroll it. GM pays the same for a pound of steel, regardless as to which car it goes into, so the cost is in the volume of alumunum and the labor involved in the suspension components.

BTW: you'll see another Sigma car soon.

3. Cadillac actually pitches the CTS against the 3 series BMW and the STS against the 5 series, despite the size differences. Cadillac's upcoming big rear driver (likely to be in showrooms next to the FWD DTS, instead of replacing it) will be the 7 series player.


Of course??? The beltline is irrelevent with Zeta.


You know if you had ever actually gone to Australia, or at the very least, knew anything about it, you opinion would at least be considered, if not taken with a grain of salt. However, from someone knowing absolutley ZILCH about the country, you end up being the one laughable.

I really have a hard time believing someone like you exists. I've read about people like you, I've heard about people like you, but it's a trip to actually run into someone like you. You actually know nothing about something, yet have can say things so far off the mark that it's simply baffling.


You aren't the only one guilty of this, so I'm not slamming you on this one.

The Chevy Nova and the Chevy Camaro shared the same chassis, yet had different body designations. The so-called Beta (which doesn't actually exist yet) and the Kappa are the same way. The what's attached to the structure is the same & the basic structure is the same.

Kappa by Bob Lutz own words was to spawn a series of niche cars and "possibly" sedans, so the so-called Beta was a factor from the very start.

Also, Bob Lutz doesn't push projects. He is the guy before the product board who has to be sold on a product idea before he sends it to the Product Planning Board. He also allocates money for development of vehicles. Finally, he's the BS eliminator. Example:when a beancounter subsitutes lower quality material instead of what was specified (it happened with the C6 and the Cobalt), he overrules them.

He demands when a product comes to him, people are 100% behind it, are enthusiastic about it, and have a solid case behind it. He even delayed the Solstice (a car HE was enthusiastic about) till the numbers added up.

 

like some here, I'm also getting really confused...

in the above thread (which I didn't paraphrase) you indicated that CTS, STS and SRX came on the same assembly line, ALA Holden's manufacturing process for however-long I can remember. Prior to this, GMNA assemble one type of vehicle on each assembly line and this could lead to under-utilization when marketing of this model goes south...

However, Z284ever recent postings suggested that Holden's manufacturing methodology is "not in tune" with that of GMNA, leading to question about viability of ZETA in N.A. Maybe I don't see the obvious writing on the wall, but is the above 2 train of thoughts related in any way?

I see Z284ever's recent threads as being the "glass half empty" while your posts are primarily "glass half full". I know the 2 of you "exchange notes" and you did mention that you may not fully agree with each other, but I'm getting confused....

 

*Grabs Popcorn*

 

The CTS, STS and SRX are all longitudinal engined, they're all pretty close to the same size and they all pretty much look alike. The fact that they come off the same assembly line isn't impressive. What's impressive is that Nissan can produce FWD transverse engined, unitized body products on the same assembly line as RWD longitudinal engined, body-on-frame products.

GM is still years behind in platform and production line flexibility.

I'm not surprised that product development for the Australian derivative are running on schedule, simply because the VE is less ambition product for the very accepting and unsophisticated Australian market. North America demands more product variations and high levels of build quality and reliability.

It looks as if GM is scaling back investments in the face of a somewhat pessimistic forecast for North American sales. The remaining "Big 2" are shifting away from incentives towards production cuts.

The STS wasn't all that much wider than the CTS - or very much larger in any other dimension. The lack of sizing variation is a huge problem with the Sigma platform - so far.

Blame Zarella all you want, but Lutz doesn't look all that much brighter. This sort of "blame the last guy excuse" is used to frequently when people discuss GM.

I hate to break it to you, but asinine pricing on the Sigma-based products is pushing them into segments where they don't belong.




Actually, the beltline issue is one non-financial aspect of the original decision against a Sigma-based Camaro.



GuionM, its a good thing you haven't spent time in Russia because you would have come back raving about the genious behind Lada, Volga and Zil cars. I've travelled overseas more than most, but I've still managed to stay in perspective about foriegn cars and foriegn car companies.







Every Solstice (or Sky) will be a money loser for GM. That just about says it all. Much like Zarella, Lutz has some very peculiar ideas - but the big difference is that enthusists like Lutz's ideas better.

The Kappa roadsters would never have happened before Lutz and maybe that would have been for the best. The Beta-platform sedans are the products that should be premiering right now and the Kappa-platform roadsters should have been the pie-in-the-sky projects, not the other way around.

I'm getting the feeling that Lutz's ill-guided enthusiam isn't preferable to Zarella's marketing-oriented cynicism - at least when it comes to GM's bottom line.

 

That's a pretty silly comment considering the Sigma vehicles are selling extremely well... and the first, CTS, came out of the gates in 2003 selling way ahead of expectations, and sales continue to rise.

 

This is indeed impressive, and to an extent, true, but Nissan also had no choice. They were a frogs hair away from ceasing to exist a few years back and through some excellent and unexpected leadership have roared back to success utilizing, essentially, two architectures and three engines for 90% of their cars.

I think, in all honesty, GM would be more creative if they had to be, too, but they have so much capacity, I think they just go, "aw, forget it we don't need a flexible manufacturing plant. We have dozens of plants building dedicated platforms."

 

To add to Guion's post a little, remember not only is Sigma RWD/AWD capable, it also sits under the SUV of the year in the SRX and a winning race program with the CTSv race car.

 

Nissan's turnaround from the brink of bankruptcy to today's debt free company was stunning - especially when you consider that Nissan now has the highest profit margins in the industry.

Sadly, it's impossible to make the same sort of turnaround at GM. Due to UAW contracts, GM can't easily reduce capacity. If GM wants to shut down a plant, they have to continue paying the UAW members to do absolutely nothing. That's right, if GM closes a plant, the downsized UAW workers get nearly the same levels of pay and benefits as if they were still working for years, and years... Then there are the pension obligations...

 

It seems that just about everything these days is available with AWD - except a CTS. I'd also argue that the SRX is overpriced and not very capable as an SUV and I couldn't care less about a CTSv racing in some series that few watch or even know about.

 

You forgot the [/opinion] tag at the end.

 

Well the CTS doesn't have the option of AWD does it - but the Infiniti G35, BMW 3-series, Mercedes C-class, Audi A4, Jaguar X-type and even the upcoming Lincoln Zephyr do.

And just how far can you venture "offroad" with the very expensive SRX?

Oh, and what $%#@ing racing series does the CTS-V run in? Does anyone know or care? How many people tune in? After the Cadillac's unimpressive stab at LeMans, it took a long time for the laughter to subside.

 

Actually ol' redzed has earned the label of TROLL around here...I'm choosing to ignore him/her/it from this point forward....

I've never really listened to his trolling before I owned him on the nissan issue...and won't bother feeding this troll from this point on.....maybe if we all ignore him, he'll go away.....and maybe start saving those poor broken Nissan crapmobiles from their idiotic American owners.