OK, so the SS concept will ride on a next gen V-car, (AKA "Sigma-Lite" to some).

My impressions are that this next gen V-car...is actually the current V-car with some Sigma components....mostly in the rear suspension...and that this will be the low cost RWD platform used by GM NA (and Holden).

So my question is, how does this really affect the Camaro? Maybe we can brainstorm this.

RP himself has said that this platform (V-car/GM2800) was looked at and deemed inappropriate for Camaro. Also, the Sigma's current rear suspension control arms,(which will probably end up in this new low cost RWD), makes packaging a low slung coupe (a la Camaro), difficult. And this new RWD will probably retain the V-car/GM2800 front McPherson strut suspension....something alot of the "gearheads" at GM DON'T want to see in the next Camaro.

So the question remains: will this end up being the Camaro's platform or will it need to be heavily modified? Or will it be something completely different?

Your input is welcomed.

 

I'd say GM knows much, much more than they're telling us...

Things are kept secretive for a reason. Why give up info when '02s are still on the lot?? I've sold so many Firebirds this year because these are the "last ones." Why give away info to harm that image??

I say that GM will continue to revise Sigma if that is what it will take to get Camaro right. Sigma can handle a V8 nicely, as the new CTS V8 proves. I don't think GM would put Camaro on a V platform if it isn't conducive to a sports car platform.

And for those complaining they'll go buy something else, go for it. I can't blame you. For me personally, while I disagree with a lot GM does, I'll stick around. I don't believe in supporting imports, period. I just bought my new Grand Am, so that will be paid off by '06. The Z is paid for. So I figure even if I have to wait until '08, so what?? I have a 6 year old driver, a show car, and I'll be first in line for a new one. For me, its close to perfect.

And to anyone who says GM's current cars under $30k are nothing better than rental fleet cars, I would like to invite them up to Massachusetts for a test drive in a Grand Am GT, a GTP or an Alero. Sure, the absence of a stick in these cars is annoying. But take a ride in one and look at the rest of the car...I guarantee you'll be surprised. I know my new Grand Am GT has surprised me with its respectable power (0-60 in low 7s), MPG (28 highway, not even broken in yet), and its the best handling FWD car its size I have ever driven, imports included.

------------------
Jason E
'97 30th Anniversary Z28
White with orange stripes, white leather
M6, T-tops, 46k miles...bone stock except for a killer Xtant/Eclipse/Boston Acoustics system

'89 Formula
Medium Maui Blue Metallic
305 TPI, AT, t-tops, 103k, restoration underway...\

'95 Grand Am SE Coupe
-Red, 117k, the winter ride

Long Live #3...

 

THANK YOU Jason! Finally... someone posts who is not consumed with bitterness and self-pity. You other guys - I am sorry you are so disappointed, I truly am. But I just don't see what the crisis is about the timing. Sure - it would have been better if no hiatus. Sure - it would be nice to know some things about exact plans. My advice for those wringing their hands... why don't you go buy an 02 Z28? They are still out there.

------------------
Sunset Orange Met. 2002 Trans Am, DF Lid, FRA, K&N | DFGreen 98 GTP, Insulated SLP K&N, !U!Res, 3.5 Pulley, transcooler
| Brilliant Red Metallic 1990 IROC-Z Camaro, K&N, Camaro SS takeoff muffler | NBM 99 Formula, SOLD in Aug. 02.

 

If any of the chevy top employees or even if lower ones read this then let me tell you how I feel. IF I HAVE TO WAIT TILL 2009 FOR A NEW CAMARO THEN THE BOWTIE BRAND CAN SUCK MY D**K SC*EW OFF. WHAT THE H**L IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE. NOBODY WILL CARE BY 2009.
from a formally very faithful chevy fan

 

And the assclown or the month award goes too.....

 

Why?
Because we think that the interior is crap,
because in so many ways, the can really offer a beter CAMARO!
Faster, more reliable, maybe just a bit lighter and smaller, just like the 1st Gen
why don't we go and buy a 02?
BECAUSE WE WHERE PROUD OF THE 35 YEARS OF JOY, THAT THE CAMARO'S HAD OFERED
AND JUST GO AND KILL IT! WITHOUT GIVING A FIGHT IS A SLAP IN THE FACE FOR MANY OF THE TRUE CAMARO FANS
WHY GO AND BUY TO SOMEBODY THAT LET YOU DOWN
I MAN I AM SORRY BUT I WAS PROUD OF WHAT THE CAMARO WAS
I will never buy a GM car ever
maybe get a newer stang, Ford really has some nice cars to offer for the people who likes RWD V8's



------------------
1995 Red Z28
98 Z28 Wheels
White Face Gauges
Moroso CAI
Air Foil
Hookers Headers
Dyno Max Muffler
LT4 Knock Module
Reprogramed Computer

 

and now you know why I take very little seriously from what I read on websites.....
I realize that many are upset, but come on....
Guys and gals, I love talking with people'one on one' at Camaro shows...and Mustang shows (I go incognito) and tuner shows (incognito, again) and in parking lots.....I get a lot more questions and information and and education that way......and no one in my 25 years in this business has resorted to being downright uncouth and saying what has been written in this post......

Now...WHO said 2009????

I'm here to tell you that with people like Lutz and Heinricy in charge, things are changing daily. Lutz has not been at the helm of GM that long and Zarella has not been gone that long.
Do you REALLY think it would be smart for Lutz to just up and cancel ALL programs and start over? Do you REALLY?

Now..I've said it before and I;ll say it again.....GM, Ford, Chrysler, and any other manufacturer is NOT going to abandon Sport UTes and FWD passenger sedans. Newsflash: It is the bread and butter of this business...it is what the average american wants...because (and I;ve also said this before..no one has, to my knowledge ever had a loaded gun put to their head and told to buy a Sport Ute...... this is a free country and the public has NEVER had so many choices when it comes to cars and trucks as it has right now...and I don't see the choices getting smaller..not by a long shot.)

There's a lot going on right now. And you are right...GM is NOT going to tell you a lot for a lot of really good reasons. This is the most competitive market in the world! Like it or not, it aint gonna happen.

Now..I know I'm gonna get flamed on this one....but someone posts some supposed facts (some are close, many are off-base and one or two are false) and someone else says 2009 and people go nuts.....

Calm down! Do I want you to go buy a Mustang or another car? Hell no, but it is a free country and I'm not foolish enough to believe that people are not going to wait around en masse. But I also know that there are other things coming from GM.

I also know this: I'd rather delay a car for a year and get everything right than to rush something out there that wasn't right. (and don't read into that.....)

I do know this...I doubt that anyone on this board...or in the auto industry for that matter, could have predicted the last ten years in terms of where the market has gone.

And finally...will a few of you PLEASE take the word 'camaro' and 'fwd' and promise me NEVER to use them in the same sentence again? Please?

And last. There is not one single person on this board that is as upset that I am that the last 4th gen Camaro is coming off the line in the very very very near future. NOT ONE.

Now...calm down.....and watch yer &$(# language!

 

Damn, man, calm down. I know that you are very passionate about the GM brand, and Camaro in particular. Many of us are. My very first car was an F-body and I've had six since then. I agree that there is no need to become rude and discourteous and applud your obvious restraint. I think many people were just under the impression that a 05 or 06 release was the going "rumor". You are right that the response to the original post stated 2009 and everyone did go nuts but this should show you that some are just as passionate about this car as you. I, in no way, want to undermine your repsonse and agree with you in the most part about being patient. But as you stated the demand is dictated by the buying public. This same buying public makes up society, and this is a society of "I want it now!". I guess I was just caught a little off gaurd by your response. We all appreciate you keeping us up to date as much as you are able, and nknow that there are still some of us who will be patient to the teachings of a wise, "old" man. lol

Kyle



[This message has been edited by vodoo-chile (edited August 24, 2002).]

 

RedPlanet, thanks for posting! Impacts of people like Lutz and Heinricy have hardly had a chance to be felt yet on this new wave of GM performance cars... it would be wise, folks, to give them a chance to do their work.

Amen to that... people often forget - this is where the profits come from (SUV's and trucks I mean) to allow GM to fund niche vehicles like the Corvette and GTO.

While people here whine and moan about how tight-lipped GM is about future plans, they sometimes neglect to consider the logic operating at GM. For one thing - there's the tender issue of the St. Therese shutdown coming soon. There are ongoing battles with environmental groups and lobbies, watching CAFE like hawks (hmm maybe the next Camaro will have DOD ). But bigger than that, imagine how useful it would be to Ford/DCX/Nissan etal to know the whats/whens of the next Camaro in detail. They would have years of lead time to plan and develop their own competitive offerings... same features, but a little bit better... this hurts the business case for the next Camaro since it changes what can be assumed about sales. Instead, it's more effective to develop the car and then reveal it as late as possible, too late for competitors to react (at least for a couple years after the new Camaro intro). If the car is a hit, it will sell well. Maybe not to the current herd of potential customers posting here (perhaps they will go on the market before it comes out, and go buy a different brand), but instead to folks who are on the market when it comes out. However, I believe that even if GM revealed a solid Camaro prototype right now with intent to produce in say, 2007, no sizable number of customers would believe in it enough to wait all those years and not buy other cars. Of COURSE GM is going to lose some muscle car sales while the Camaro is on hiatus. I'm sure though that GM is doing everything possible to fill the gap ASAP. The GTO is one example...

[This message has been edited by BigDarknFast (edited August 24, 2002).]

 

if there is no Camaro by MY 2006 then I will most likly be rolling in a new Hemi Charger!!!

 

Z28x - Congratulations. I hope you are happy with it. I used to be excited about the Charger, when the first concept was shown at NAIAS 99. It's been quite a while now, NO Charger has shown up, and in fact the latest concept drawings in MT magazine had that hideous "crossbar" grille like on the Ram pickups and the ridiculous Super8 Hemi concept of NAIAS 2001. If the new charger looks like the concept drawing, I want nothing to do with it.

 

Can someone like a picture to the SS? It seems like everyone's seen it but me!

 

I'll be the first to agree that the Grand Am is a decent car - and a superb value.

The only problem is that an Infiniti G35 is just a few thousand dollars away - and alot less distant if you consider the lease payments. The same goes for the BMW 325i, a car that leases quite cheaply.

Domestic passenger cars, and even some of the mainstream Japanese marques, have lost their appeal to me. The automotive business revolves more around residual values than zero-to-60 times these days.

The lease payment on a $37K Volvo S60 AWD is about the same as the payment on a 60 month buy on a $21k Pontiac Grand Am, even at 0% interest. In five years time I would rather be leasing my second new Volvo rather than driving a paid-off Pontiac - and I don't even like Volvos.

The only thing that will keep me out of a foreign car is the $8,000 to $10,000 discount available on GM's full-sized SUVs.

 

I suppose I may have spoken too soon, I do still have to see a final version in person. But with specs on the Hemi I sure hope that car looks good to match. I suppose if the GTO puts out more HP at a similar price I will go with that.

 

Ok, I got upset but its bad enough that just when i got in a postion moneywise that I could buy a new camaro that they cancelled it but then I hear that they won't be back (maybe) till THE NEXT DECADE I get mad. Can you really blame me. Most of us here have to face it, we aren't corvette guys. I am not, sure I would love to have one but I love camaros. So please please please don't do this. I know there can be a new camaro before 09, so pull your butts into gear and do this. Thank you Red Planet for putting this into perspective. BTW I filtered my own language, as we all should.