Okay, fair enough.

 

The only similarity between GTO and GTP that is obvious so far is the front end treatment. If you're arguing over current GTO name, then you should go back to the 60's in the first place - GTO was a virtual GP clone, with some minor differences.

Moving on to another point:

Official numbers for Cobra are around high 12's (12.8 or 12.9 it was published), but we all know they can get into low 12's...

There's reason to believe this GTO will do mid 13's, not based on GM's advertised numbers, but based on our knowledge and experiences of LS1 f-bodies. GTP is a far cry from mid 13's. GTO will have at least a 100 HP advantage, but also heavier by about 200 pounds (if I'm not mistaken).

The conclusion of the matter, having said all things, is this: their performances, while both respectable, are not close to each other, and will not be (that goes for handling and drag-strip).

 

I know someone needs to look at the front of a 64 GTO and a 64 Grand Prix and compare

 

The only fact you've establish is the V6, FWD GTP still has 100 fewer hp than LS1 V8 GTO. The difference between 14.5 seconds and 14 seconds isn't trivial, either.

 

PGR,

GM has stated GTO will have 360HP and do the 1/4 in LESS than 14 seconds. That doesn't necessarliy mean 13.8 or so...could be less. And (this may not be on the 1st year) will have an option for a 400HP LS6.

You might as well compare Z28's and Formula's to a GTP. These cars are on completely different platforms, drive different wheels with completly different engines.

Actually, you could make a better point argueing that the original GTO should be called LeMans.

That said....does it resemble a GP? Yup. But that's it.

 

You're telling me!

 

When you devote a whole plant staffed by CAW making top dollar,plant is capable of making 2000,000 units and you only sell 40k units....your done. Why not produce other cars there?? wel theres your CAW top dollar thing again. Thanks to NAFTA, they can pay Mexicans 10% of what they pay a CAW or UAW employee, and no union hassles,no sky rocketing health insurance etc. all so the Mexicans will be able to afford to buy our products. A mexican GM employee couldn't afford a Hyundai.

 

I wonder if all the people who bought the ORIGINAL GTOs wanted "understated" too?

I reckon they just "put-up with" the hood scoops and aggressive lines that helped make it famous - how tacky on a "performance car", eh? If all those GTO-buyers back then had only known that they could have gotten "them big honkin' engines" in the LeMans or Tepests, they wouldn't have had to endure the attention and magnetism of those gaudy stripes, scoops, and badges as they drove around town...

Is it so hard to perceive that people wanted a GTO because they WANTED THEIR CAR TO STAND OUT IN A CROWD?

This car is just named wrong. That's the ONLY thing wrong with it, IMO.

 

The only thing it doesn't have that a 64 GTO had were fake hood scoops, and they may appear as an option when its released. They should have stuck the LS1 in a Grand Prix..that would hve made it worthy of the name. Who needs a GTO that can handle the 360hp??

 

So 100 horsepower is a "tad more"?

I was reading the new goat trapping a 108-110...you ever been to a track? Cuz you know that generally means an ET in the mid-low 13's, right?

Even using your numbers, you think that 14.0 and 14.5 are about the same? Have you ever drag raced? That's what, 5 car lengths?

Are you the type of guy who races someone at a light, loses by half a block, and calls it "about even"?

Oh, and in response to Branden's comment...

I've been saying that all along. You can always add hood scoops and crap to your car, I mean hell, look at how many aftermarket scoops there are for the F-Body.

But oddly, I can't find a single aftermarket hood to remove the fake hood scoops on an LT1. The aftermarket doesn't work that way.

Start understated, and you can get the conservative people, and the people who want a wilder car will customize it themselves.

Start wild, and you scare the conservatives off. And there's a certain segment of people that like customizing their car, and will be put off by factory stuff since they'd rather do an aftermarket thing to be more unique.

 

Might want to look a little less farther south.

Might want to look into what was in the CAW contracts (of that plant) and what assurances were made to the goverments up that way? Was the plant efficient? Did it fall in line with GM's new flexible assembly process & just in time parts delivery goals? Could it be made this way with modest investments without additional expensive deals being made with all entities involved?


Then ask yourself, " If I had excess capacity, and needed to close a plant, which one would I close"?

I'm sure you remember even the CAW representitives left Ste. Therese workers out to dry. Might want to look into that too.

This had nothing to do with Mexico. If anything, this perhaps is one of those rare instances where things ended up favoring the US at the expense of another country thanks to NAFTA.

Wrong on this one. There's more to it.

 

I fully expect the new GTO to trap at 105 mph with 360 hp. That should be a damn low 13 if someone can drive the thing, Im willing to bet that Evan Smith puts one in the 12s bone stock, too.

 

The new GTO is a joke. Screw GM sales, its not like they don't make enough money anyways. Why should I care about their freaking sales??? The f-body has always been a top performer, a beautiful machine, and a dream car to many American muscle car enthusiast.

And look now what GM brings to the table...A Chevy Cavalier with GTO emblems. An insult to GTO fans. An insult to muscle car, heck American car enthusiasts. Could they have made the car any more boring looking????