It seems like we're hitting another waive of GTO talk. I figure I'll put another spin on things.

With the GTO said to be arriving with approximately the same numbers and performance as the HSV Holden GTO, we're looking at our very own SVT Cobra: a tuner version of an already capable GT coupe.

While the Pontiac GTO will not be as much of a Vette-chaser as the Cobra (or make that Vette-catcher--Nov. MT... Z06: 4.60/12.85@114.36, Cobra: 4.69/12.84@113.18), it will be the second fastest car in the GM stable and have comparable numbers with our lost F-bodies.

And much like the Monaro it is based off of, our GTO has returned a bit advanced from its muscle car history--as a premium Gran Turismo! Even if "Grand Tourer" is your preference, a GT, as defined in this same MT, "isn't a sports car, but it can be damned sporty...not a race car, but usually fast...not a pure luxury car, though it can be both comfortable and luxurious. A great GT combines all these traits by virtue of versatility, not compromise." This is the type of car that is sorely missing from the GM ranks. This is the type of car with the versatility to actually be compared to a BMW. This is a Pontiac equivalent to the Infiniti G35 Coupe (which everyone has been raving about)--only with a V8!

Now before the purists start in, "but the GTO was a muscle car, if not THE muscle car," you should come to the realization that there are no more real "muscle cars" and there won't be any again. Even while we are coming on a new performance era, there are no pure muscle cars to be found. Sure, there are cars with ETs that meet or surpass the '60s greats, some with HP to match. But today's cars are not one-dimensional in this sense. These new cars have handling, all-around performance, and livability to match. That's ok, evolution is good. The evolution of the GTO should also be good. Gran Turismo Omologato is what it means afterall.

Again, I return to this current Motor Trend where an SVT Cobra is pitted against a BMW M3 and Maserati Coupe. While initially not considering a Cobra in the same field as the others (they declared it was "a musclecar that dresses nicely and plays that part of a good GT"), it does share the same characteristics in less polished form--and at an affordable price. They selected the BMW as the winner because of its being the "best of all worlds." Now plug our GTO into that competition. You have a car offering what the BMW does at the Cobra's price (and arguably with better looks). Makes sense for GM to import such a car, doesn't it?

It also makes sense to call it GTO.

 

Amen. I don't see what's not to like about the GTO. At times like this, the GTO sounds very promising.

GM went through the trouble of importing this car. They could have just as easily left GM faithfuls open handed, and with very little alternatives in terms of performance offerings.

 

Right on! The GTO is a real midsize car with 2 doors that seats four adults. It could be a Chevelle just as easy as a GTO.

 

The last Muscle car to come with less than 2 doors were the Regal Grand National & GNX, and to a lesser but still true extent, Monte Carlo SS & the final Hurst/Olds Cutlass.

Great to see GM of all people leading the way back.....at least they beat Dodge!

 

OOPS!! I forgot to include my own favorite late 2 door muscle car, the Thunderbird SC 5 speed. It may have had only 6 cylinders, but you can't argue with Mustang acceleration and an over 140mph top speed.

 

I just wish people would refrain from judging and in many cases bashing the car when they have never seen it! I mean all we have seen is an artist rendering that Pontiac passed out. I understand that the car resembles a current model Grand Prix but I'm sure when it arrives that there will be no mistaking the car for a GP. People always complained that the GP was not a V8 rwd car and now that they have one on the way they bash it. After the car arrives and people see it, touch it, and even drive it then make your decision. I have a feeling a few people slamming the car now will eat their words after arrives.

 

If I wanted a sports sedan, maybe I'd buy a BMW or even the new GTO. Then I could talk on my cell phone while I drive to work and check my hair-do in the rear-view mirror. Then at lunch time, I could take 3 of my business partners to lunch at Starbucks, afterall, the new GTO fits 4 large adults comfortably.

After work, I could pick up my two children from daycare, and my son from soccer practice. I'm sure they would appreciate the smooth ride of the new GTO. Then I could tell my wife that I enjoy my new GTO much more than her white SUV. The GTO's bumper even has a spot for my "I have an Honor Roll student at Riverside Elementary School" bumper sticker.

And if all of that isn't enough, I can go cruise Telegraph and Gratiot on Saturday night and attempt to remedy my mid-life crisis by re-living my 2nd childhood and messing with all those punks in their Mustangs and F-Body's. Little do they know that their cheap, unrefined cars would be in for a surprise with my V8 rear wheel drive. Most of them probably wouldn't even suspect that under this uninspired and conservative design lurks a powertrain stolen from the long dead F-Bodies. Hmm....actually my design is stolen too....from a Grand Am.

Yeah, that would be the ticket, after I get a disposable $35,000.

 

What Penta here is saying is, is the new GTO has far too much praticality and quality, and not enough compromise.

Backseats and technology are squaresville, we need a live axle car with a tiny backseat and horrible fit and finish, just like the 4th gen. Screw this whole "Improvement" thing. While we're on that topic, when will they go back to carbs?

 

Ahh, sidevalves, drum brakes all round, cross-ply's ... what a great car for the 21st C ...

 

Starbucks serves lunch now?

 

Having a performance car does mean some amount of compromise. Have you ever driven in a corvette for any length of time? I find the interior of my Dad's vette to be a bit cramped, although I am 5'11 1/2" and 225 lbs. I don't complain, however, because the corvette is not made for luxury, it's made for performance. I don't hear anyone complaining that the corvette doesn't have a backseat.

My uncle's cadillac has a 300 hp V8, and it has great power, a backseat, and a VERY comfortable interior. Granted the car is FWD, but FWD is more practical for winter drving. I suppose that's what having performance car is about: practicality.

 

I direct you to the BMW M3.

Outruns an LS1 Z28 in the 1/4 mile, keeps real close to a non-Z06 Corvette, and can give any Vette a good run for it's money on a road course. All of this while seating 4 comfortably, having plenty of room inside, and an insanely nice and plush interior.

But it's not a performance car because it has a backseat? It's not a performance car because it has a nice interior? It's not a performance car because it handles well?

I think we've been trained over the years that a car either has to perform well, or be practical. So now when GM is trying to up the bar and give us both, people freak out and say it must not be a performance car. Why can't we have an American M3?

Personally, why can't we have it all? GM is supposed to be the company that gives us a car that's damned close to the Europeans, but for a lot less money. That was what they did 35 years ago, and it's what they should be doing now. The Monaro/GTO is a step in that direction. The 4-Door HSV (I don't recall which car it was exactly) against an M5 and an E55 AMG compared very well, and ran with the German cars on the track and in a line.

BMW and Mercedes have been bringing out cars for years that are great performers, and don't make you fold yourself in half and disown your friends and family to drive. I think GM can make a car that competes in this class for a lot less money, and that's exactly what this GTO looks to be.

I'm shocked that there's any problem with this car beyond your obligatory "it doesn't look like the 19XX GTO" whiners. Complaining about it having a backseat and IRS? I mean, if you're that fond of the impractical backseats and live axle, there are millions of old Mustangs and Camaros for you to buy, or maybe an old Corvette is your thing. The new GTO is made to be a higher and better class of car, a step forward.

If it can go just about as fast as an LS1 Camaro SS, handle better, and seat your friends in the backseat, what the hell is wrong with the car?

 

The BMW M3 is indeed a very high performing car. However, besides the fact I cannot afford it, it does not have aggressive styling. It still looks like a boxy sedan/coupe.

Just because a car has a good list of specs (with a price tag to match), doesn't make me inclined to buy it. If that was the case, I would have bought an 03 cobra by now.

An M3 will outrun an LS1....what are the 1/4 mile times of the M3?

Like I said before, my uncle has a 300 hp Northstar Caddilac. Would you consider this a performance car?

 

If you wanted a sports sedan, you would buy a coupe???? you do know the GTO is a coupe, don't you. You can also do all that other stuff in your SS, well not the fits 4 large adults comfortably. I guess you could put a bunch of stuff in the back seat to make your your guests unhappy. I myself look forward to the shorter overhangs on the GTO. I know some of you like that scraping sound when you go up/down a step hill, the GTO might not be the car for you.


just for the record, I'm 6'0" and have driven and rode in the back of a 2002 BMW M3. The back seat SUCKS.

 

The price issue is definitely a big one. Which is why I said I thought GM could bring us just much for less money, which is where the GTO comes in.

2002 BMW M3:
0-60: 4.7
1/4 mile: 13.2 @ 107

2002 Camaro SS:
0-60: 5.2
1/4 mile: 13.5 @ 107

Is a 300hp Northstar Caddilac a performance car? Nope.

It's FWD, comes with completely cush suspension and handling, and weighs a few tons. Does it even come in a manual? Horsepower isn't the sole basis for a performance car. A lot of HP in a big heavy car with spongy suspension and a crappy slow drivetrain makes for a comfy car.

But a car with a 350hp LS1, a 6speed, IRS, and can handle up there with the German cars? Hell yes it's a performance car.

Aggressive styling seems to be your key requirement for a "performance car"...I'd hate to see what you call the GNX/T-Type. Is the 87 Camaro more of a "performance car" than a GNX because it has "agressive styling" even though it's slower?

You take a car that has everything the F-Body has and more, and then say that it's not a performance car?

Damn, I never knew people felt so strongly about hood scoops.

What does a Camaro have that the new GTO doesn't? Live axle? A big ram air hood?

Oh wait, "aggressive styling"

I guess we'd be better off with something more like the Celica, huh?

Edit:

I also found one of the articles comparing the HSV GTS R 300 to a BMW M5, but not the one I originally saw:

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caran...ee.xml?&page=1