thats what i was told by a ford dealer about the ford hybrids, but then again dealers are often full of crap.

 

Not true for the Prius, you may be thinking of the Accord

 

No, Prius offers electric air conditioning that works on full electric mode, unless toyota has it wrong:

http://www.toyota.com/about/news/pro...6-1-prius.html

"Instead of running off the fan belt, the new inverter air conditioner is fully electrically operated. Not only does this improve fuel efficiency, it ensures passenger comfort, even when the gasoline engine is off and the car is being propelled only by the electric motor."

You might be thinking about the first gen Prius that was last sold for the 2003 model year.

As far as Honda Civic goes, I guess it could be a grey area, but A/C can run in all electric mode, I guess not at full capacity (true for the Accord hybrid as well):

http://search.hondacars.com/Default....r+conditioning
new hybrid air conditioning system uses power from both the engine and an electric motor to increase cooling performance in the car's interior and helps to further reduce fuel consumption

"Honda's new-design air conditioner usually doesn't require the gasoline engine to be running, as did the previous model."

Import companies can move fast on improvements, espectially in a fast-moving field like hybrids.

 

Yes but I think you'd agree that a full electric AC is going to drain the battery pack rapidly, requiring the gas engine to come on to recharge the pack a lot sooner...so its 6 one way half-dozen the other,but regardless A/C is going to significantly hurt gas mileage in a Hybrid and I think worse than in a standard gas-powered car.

 

Playing devils advocate here, but...

While most hybrid owners won't regularly get the EPA figures they advertise the hell out of, they will get figures good enough to make that top-10 list. They'd probably fall behind the diesels and finish around the 4-6 spots.. which isn't terrible by any means.

Lastly.. the Aveo really needs a more fuel efficient engine. Something to get it into the mid-to-high 30's for city and low 40's for hwy. Something around what Toyota's Echo is getting. Anybody hear anything of an improvement coming?

 

hybrid owners usually get mileage in the 40s. do you know how long it would take to recover the extra cost of their carin gas savings?

 

They shouldn't use EPA ratings for this list.
They should use actual figures.

That POS Prius doesn't get anywhere near it's 60/51 rating.

 

GM needs a 50mpg+ Diesel Aveo.

GM sells 40mpg+ cars over seas, they need some in the USA

 

EPA is the only standardized numbers for fuel economy though, no way actual figures would work. Best would be to change the EPA city/highway cycles to better reflect real-world conditions.

Fuel economy is part of what hybrids are about, but so is very clean-running. Diesels don't compare. And with diesel costs the way they are, I don't think you will ever make up the difference in terms of fuel savings.

-B

 

What about the Insight. Is it getting close to 61/66?

 

I'm also interested about the Aveo getting more mpg. Is there any rumor for new engines in the 07+ models? It always seemed low for the GM "economy" brand.

 

I'd be disappointed with just-50mpg diesel Aveo; I think GM could do better than that. Add the mild-hybrid stop/start technology to it. The VW diesels reach 46mpg. The VW's aren't as light as an Aveo. The engines aren't even close to modern either. A modern, small diesel in an Aveo would do well. Add the hybrid technology & I think GM would finally have a true "green" car -- something their current portfolio lacks.

 

And usually if the EPA says a GM car will get 26, you'll see 28 every now and then. At least I always have.

 

I second that. Considering the cost of these hybrids, people are much better off sticking with their used car. Many are surprised when I tell them I wouldnt trade my Fiero (book value of about $1600) for a new honda-anything.

The cost of keeping that new honda would eat me alive considering what I budget for the fiero.

Cost of keeping a fiero:

Avg. Sale Price: $800
Avg. MPG: 28 / 29 (by the way, that's real life figs. not EPA)
Insurance: $26/mo.
NC State Taxes: $4.50 / year.

So, in the year I bought the car considering I spend about:
$1200 in gas [15,000 mi. x 2.25/gal (avg)]
$312 for insurance
$4.50 in taxes
and $800 for the car,
Im looking at my automobile costing me about $6.35 / day.

Now, I dont care if that $27,000 Honda Insight got 100MPG, it's avg. daily cost is way over $6!! Plus, it's fashionably ugly.

BUT, just for fun :-D

Honda Insight: $27,000
(what as the avg. mpg? I think 40 something... we'll say 45.)
$750 in gas [15,000 mi. x 2.25/gal (avg)]
$600 / year for insurance (im guessing it's close to my VUE)
and, taxes on a 27,000 POS are probably going to be around $230.

Total cost that year: $28,580 (not incl. finance charges and the loss in pride because your driving a bit** car)

that's a daily cost of OVER $78!!

I'm sticking with the Pontiac.

 

/\
I did some numbers when gas was about $3gal locally based on a constant amount of miles and fuel prices.

After a 5 year period the combined cost of the initial purchase price and Tahoe fuel consumption over an Impala, you can about buy 2 Impalas for the extra money spent on origonal MSRP and fuel useage.