GM is going to put an aweful lot of resources into the Ecotec over the next few years to turn it into an honest-to-goodness performance engine and tap into this whole tuner crowd movement.

Chevy will have a blown Ecotec Z24 (remember that there is no production Z24 at the moment),at SEMA this year..and we will be seeing 210-220 hp supercharged Ecotecs in Cavaliers, Sunfires and Saturns in the not too distant future.

Would a blown 220-230 hp Ecotec be a viable engine choice in a future Camaro?

*PS....don't lynch me...I'm just asking.

 

I hope your talking about a base motor. Even so, a 220hp I4 motor isn’t all that great. I would still rather have a 3.8L. They are cheap, good motors with most likely much better torque than any I4 could put out. I’m not saying I wouldn’t like to see a 4 cylinder in a base model Camaro, but if it cant compete against the mustang and imports in performance and still beat them in price then what’s the point.

 

....if it doesn't have the "Camaro Formula" then let it stay dead....it's just much better to simply call it something else.......even though we all know how much GM loves to ***** out a legendary nameplate

I've been thinking about the concept of how hard it will be for the Camaro / Firebird to ever loose the image it has been given (unfairly in my opinion, but it's a fact) and what it could ever take to change that image......obviously it would have to be a MAJOR step forward.....i.e. be able to compete with the new 350Z, new Supra, etc......yes, I think this is where it will have to fight for it's market share...

I think the "entry level" buyers will be more and more the "Fast and Furious" crowd and with the Ecotec program it'll make some headway.

God, it kills me to say this, but I truly believe that the days of a mid $20k V8, RWD are numbered and by the time we get a replacement Camaro, the demand for higher levels of refinement and technology will make it nearly impossible.

I also don't believe any American car company can afford to continue to put out a product with the obvious flaws and cheesy construction that plagued our f-bodies...and the Mustang too for that matter. Add to that the high cost of insurance due to the high hp we all demand and not many first time buyers will even be able to insure a good old American V8 hot rod....

I got a really close look at a new 350Z this weekend and even got to race against it and I have to tell you, fully loaded except for leather and on-board wizbang stuff, this car priced out at $35k with the Track Pack options...i.e. Brembos and other go fast goodies....not any different than a loaded SS and had better build quality and handling and only gave way on the long straights to our better HP.

IF we ever get another Camaro (Scott's last e-mail had some reference to " do NOT give up hope on a new RWD V8 powered "pony car!".......notice he did not say CAMARO) it'll have to compete with some serious competition.....all all facets of this market....and hopefully make people forget all about it's 'bad' image.........I just don't think it'll be a mid $20k car and be able to do all of this.

 

Amen to that. It will be a whole new ball game by the time we see (that is if we see) a 5th gen. It's already starting.

Mustangs that can run with Z06's. Nissans (350Z and it's brother G35) that are fast, refined and beautifully put together. And possibly a Supra which will take the "pony car" formula to a new and higher level, if rumors of a V8 are true. All these cars are great values for $27-$35K.

No doubt that the days of the mid $20K V8 Camaro will be over if it is to compete in this company.....which, if it returns, it must do!

Heck, I personally don't know anyone who's paid under $30K for a high end Camaro in the past couple of years.
In fact someone I know just picked up an 2002 SS coupe for $37K.

So maybe it shouldn't come as a shock to us.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions, but when I hear people saying that a future top end Camaro shouldn't cost more than $25K because "we" don't care about a modern chassis, high quality interiors and construction, and no need for any sort of refinement at all.....I cringe, and consider that another nail in the Camaro's coffin.

Because I believe Camaro will need all that and more if we are ever to see it again and see it thrive.

 

It makes no sence to make a Camaro-like car and not use the name Camaro. Why start a new car just like it and not give it the name of the Chevrolet musclecar, a known name that has meaning??

 

This is very interesting topic! How about a turbo Ecotec for the base model Camaro to appeal to the ricers! Or the I6 from the TrailBlazer to put some excitement into the base model cars. What Chevy has to do is finad a way to not only grab V6 Stang buyers but some ricers too.

Personally I would like the idea of a 220-250 hp Turbo Ecotec, rwd, with a 6-speed or 5-speed auto with paddle shifting!

hey that would get some attention from the Lancer, WRX, and Neon SRT.

 

I understand what you are saying, but I respectfully disagree...

I think Camaro should be the "Anti-Rice"... instead of going with the flow, 8 years behind schedule... Chevy should build and market the 5th Gen as the "Anti-Rice"...

I just think that most muscle car fans are not into , and actually despise, the whole ricer mentality...

If there are a bunch of 'riced out' base model cruising around... that makes the Z28/SS models less appealing to those who really want them, I'd think.

 

I couldn’t agree with you more Darth. I think the base model should be more about comfort and some style than the importance of the motor. People who buy V6 mustangs don’t care about what’s under their hood most of the time. It needs to get good gas mileage and rev smoothly while out performing the competition. The Camaro needs to be a leader not a follower.

 

I believe darth and stars said it very well. Ricers and us "american muscle" guys are just two different groups of people, I think trying to build a car that appealed to both would result in neither buying it for fear of being assosiated with their rival group. Would you buy a civic if it had a V8 under the hood?

 

Whoa! Who's talking about rice?

Frankly I'm not sure how I feel about an Ecotec in a Camaro (leaning against it, I think)...I just wanted to see what reactions I would get.

But having a four cylinder doesn't automatically constitute rice. And NOT having one doesn't qualify as anti-rice.

Believe it or not...I've started to even see some riced out Camaros !
Stupid body kits, obnoxious rear wings, neon, decals...the whole nine yards. So having a V8 alone is no garaunteed protection from ricer syndrome.

But four bangers have appeared in some pretty neat RWD cars in the past. Porsche 924/944/944Turbo/968, 1st gen BMW M3, Alfa Romeo GTV,Cosworth Vega, Nissan200/240 SX, etc.....this is more of what I had in mind.

 

Keep it 6 and 8 and No 4's.

 

I agree... 4 bangers just don't fit into the equation... even if they make decent power.

 

If a 4 banger does find its way into a entry level camaro I dont think it will be the Ecotec. It will most likly be the Atlas 4 or 5 cyl. I doubt the inline 6 will find its way in there. It would be kinda noce to have a turbo inline six as a special edition. It would sorta be like that GN in a bird suit (TTA)

 

I understand why many of you don't want a Ecotec or any 4-banger in a Camaro. But the only thing is the Camaro needs new areas to generate sales. We have seen what happens when you lose touch with the youth market the car line or writes its own death certificate. The Camaro needs to get into other markets that will get interest into the car and the line. Lets face it this ricer thing is not going to be a fad. Its a trend among younger car buyers who can't afford the costs of the traditional American performance cars so they turn to the compact cars and mod them. So now you see SVT and Dodge jumping in with factory tuned cars to meet this demand. I'm not saying the base model Camaro has to be in this area but I do think it needs to draw some interest from these potential buyers. Remember the Skyline and Supra are coming back. They have similar setups to the Camaro why not gear a car to fight them on the front lines. GM is investing lots of money and time on the Import Drag racing scene with the Ecotec Cavaliers and Sunfires. If this can get some entry level buyers to buy a Cavalier and mod it. Maybe they will go for a Camaro after that then a Corvette. Just an idea. After all high base model Camaro sales would certainly give us enthusiasts a ground punding V8 musclecar. And a high budget for special projects like Ford's SVT Cobra, Bullitt, Mach 1, and soon to be BOSS.

 

If GM wants to jump more prominently into the 'ricer' market... so be it... I persoanlly do not believe that Camaro is the springboard from which to do so...

Cavalier/Sunfire or their replacements are the logical place for that to happen...

EDIT: Or an all new car... The Vibe could be another potential place...