91_z28_4me

Allante isn't even a blip on the Caddy radar for most people. I didn't find out about them until about 2002 and even then to me it was less important than the Cimmaron.

formula79

Allante was the same issue as XLR...right idea..terrible exectution..though to a much greater extent.. Interestingly Allante sold better than XLR in the average year. Both were made 7 years, but the Allante sold 21,430 units where XLR sold 15,260 units. Ajusted for inflation they were also priced similarlly/

AdioSS

I always have liked the looks of the XLR and XLR-V, but in my opinion, the biggest mistake was the use of the Northstar instead of the LSx. The Northstar may be considered more advanced , but it simply doesn't come close in matching the LSx's output, which is what really counts in sports cars. The Corvette isn't the only sports car/supercar with a souped up truck engine. Of course, there's the Viper. And the Ford GT's engine had a LOT in common with the engine in the Lightning.

I would love to find an XLR with a blown engine to swap an LSx into. The tall-deck LSx blocks are capable of 500 cubic inches... Adding a bunch of displacement can really tame a cam that is "lopey" in a regular size engine.

Good Ph.D

So people don't take Cadillac seriously because it's got a FWD Chevy in the lineup at a 30% markup, but they will when Cadillac has a RWD Chevy in the lineup at a 300% markup?

Something about that strikes me as odd.

Z284ever

If Cadillac were really serious about a 2nd gen XLR, it would need to surpass Corvette in every way, or why bother doing one. Of course, Corvette won't let that happen, so Cadillac shouldn't bother.

Cadillac's fortunes rest in the CTS and ATS. Spend the effort on making the CTS a true 5 Series/E Class competitor and the ATS a true 3 Series/C Class competitor. Get those two right - I mean really right - and then, maybe you can think about frivolities like a "Cadillac Corvette".

formula79

Now come on...

We are not talking about rebadging a Cobalt here. We are talking about one of the best sports car platforms in the world. Really, in all seriousness, there should not be a $100K Corvette...that car should be a Cadillac.

jg95z28

Agreed. Which would make the XTS perfect for carrying on the tradition.

Who's everyone? I honestly don't think they can compete with the Germans.

Honestly, I think Buick is better positioned to become GM's global luxury brand. The new Buicks have a more European flair and styling. Cadillac is simply just too American in design. If GM were to try to make it appeal to a European market, they would lose what makes it a Cadillac.

Come again? Cadillac has been all about big soft FWD based sedans since 1967. You appear to have it backward. Buick needs to take on the euros, while Cadillac can remain the big soft land yachts they always have been. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Good Ph.D

Even if that were the case, it's a losing game.

None of the supercars mentioned in this thread have obvious siblings, except the R8 with the Gallardo, which I don't think anyone is wringing hands over. Even Chrysler and Ford have managed to make "supercars" from the ground up, for mass market brands at that. Why can't GM do the same for its world class luxury brand?

Corvette is too popular and too recognizable, if the Cadillac has the same configuration, people will know what it is under the skin. No, I don't think Corvettes performance or history are relevant, if they are, it's in the wrong direction. Cadillac Corvette still has Corvette in the title and that simply cannibalizes the brand hiearchy.

You can't make a "No Comprimises" supercar by starting out with one big comprimise.

And this is all far and away from the point as solidifying the core model lineup is first priority before trying to build anything that's going to set hearts a flutter.

muckz

First, because you can bet that the entry-level XTS will be FWD. In order to get AWD, you'll need to cough up some $$$. It just cheapens the Cadillac brand. Besides, if Alpha-sized RWD vehicle arrives at Cadillac, there's no need for a FWD XTS.

Second, what is Caddy going after? To me it would make sense if: a) Buick competed with Japanese luxury makers, and b) Cadillac went after German automakers. Their philosophy shifted a lot in the last 10 years, and they appear to be going back to making just "good enough" vehicles after their own enthusiasm died down.

muckz

It's really rather simple I'm surprised you don't see it.

Cavalier is a sh!tty car. So was the Cimarron. Corvette is a world-class sports car. I would have no qualms about having a car based on the latter.

And unless you're referring to a different car, XLR is not 300% markup on the Vette. Besides, which Vette is a hardtop? XLR wasn't just a different sheetmetal. It had some technology that Corvette didn't.

muckz

I agree wholeheartedly!

muckz

Neither Ford nor Chrysler developed a supercar for their luxury brand. It's a Dodge Viper and Ford GT, not Lincoln GT. Chrysler doesn't even have a luxury brand.

GM has a car that handles like a supercar - ZR1, and it's a Chevy. I don't think they have a need to develop an all grounds-up supercar that may sell 50 units just for bragging rights or to appease their ego.

BMW didn't build a Z8 right off-the-bat. They had perfected their mainstream vehicles first. ANd that's exactly what GM needs to do with Cadillac. Make a perfect ATS. And a perfect CTS. Make a competitive SRX and Escalade. Then, just then, see if it's worth branching out into the territory of expensive sports coupes.

bkpliskin

I see the CTS and CTS-V as the flagship.

Darth Xed

And being that CTS is the entry level price point Cadillac........... that's not a good thing.

Good Ph.D

I'm not talking about Cimmaron or Allante, because they aren't comparable to either of the two vehicles in question.

The XTS, with it's pedestrian underpinnings, is more than capable of doing the following: competing with other tweeners like MKZ, ES, RL, and so on, as well as pulling in a few people who might have chosen a BMW or Mercedes but want to support GM or really like the look. Great. I also think it appropriate for the brand's current position, because outside of the CTS what is there that can absolutely give a BMW or a Mercedes a black eye?

Now, this 2nd generation XLR, I view as a horse of the same color. Yes, there are innumerable great things about Corvette that we don't need to list. Yes, a Cadillac version would get all that and more but people are saying Corvette like it's a magic word and that a Cadillac version would slay the dragons of the SLR, R8, Z8 and the rest. In performance, sure! Corvette already does that. But even with assorted goodies such a car is not the same kind of beast as the above and would not have the same appeal. It would be another tweener, that's sort of like an SL600 or SL55, and cheaper, but not the spontaneous orgasm that an SLR is either.

Which brings me to my conclusion. Both fill lineup holes competently. One would make money, one might not. I think they are both good ideas pending execution. But people in this thread are talking as if the former is everything that is wrong with humanity and the latter will catapult Cadillac, GM, and the western hemisphere into a state of heretofore unseen bliss. I don't think so, I think people are looking through enthusiast's eyes and drawing thick lines that in reality should be thin.


Which is par the course for that type of vehicle in that price range. It isn't blowing anyone out of the water. So while it would be nice to have, it isn't singlehandedly growing the brand, so it isn't first, second, or third priority.

That was my point exactly. The fact that those exist, and don't roll down the road with $45,000 underpinnings, in mass market brands at that, make me less likely to spend my imaginary $100,000 on a luxury branded car that does, even if those are the best performing underpinnings around.

I don't either.

I agree.