I'm glad for this. I triple take every Viper I see drive past. Lots of old guys have Vettes but how many Z06/ZR1's do you see? That's like the Viper.

 

The Viper makes a thin profit. The 2 seat sports car market is nortoriously bad for profitmaking, so even if the Viper simply broke even it would be defying the odds.

Viper in no way should have a volume platform any more than Corvette should have a back seat or the top Camaro should be a turbocharged four. Again, that's not what Viper is.


Viper has as Paul pointed out "equity". Over nearly 20 years, it's built a following. People know what a Viper is and it's nothing if not over the top. Cartoonish styling, a V10 engine, the biggest tires ever fitted to a production car (315s back in the early 90s), the 1st US car to produce first over 400 then over 500 and now over 700 horsepower.

If you can't live without heads up displays, automatic transmissions, satallite radios, magna ride that rides nicely when you aren't competing, heated this, powered everything else, or any other item that increases your driving pleasure, Corvette is your car.

If you are into collecting cars, or showing off your wealth, you buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

If you have a Beemer or a Benz in your garage, then you add a Porsche to your collection.

You buy a Viper ONLY if you're serious about getting on a track.


A few Corvette and Viper facts.

Corvette's own demographics show that ownership is concentrated in the 49 to 63 year old catagory (contains 55% of all Corvette buyers). 25% of Corvette buyers are female.

On the other hand, Dodge Viper has a median buyer age of 45 (10 years younger than Corvette buyers). Only 4% of Viper buyers are female (yes, 6 times as many women buy Corvettes than Vipers). Viper owners tend to be married a little more often than Corvette buyers (62-60%), but Viper buyers also tend to be more wealthy and are more likely to take their car to a track than Corvette buyers.

Another intresting contrast between Corvette and Viper: 36% of Corvette buyers are college grads. 44% of Viper owners are. Vipers are owned more often by entreprenurers or upper level white collar workers (executives).

About 30% of Corvettes come with automatic transmissions. No Viper has an automatic.


Throw attention to the Z06, and those figures tend to change somewhat. However, Z06 buyers tend to be Corvette enthusiasts who bought a Z06 because of it's higher capabilities. However, (and this is simply my own observation) you still look like you're driving a regular Corvette to 99.9% of the general population and you barely get a glance. Drive a Viper, however, and traffic still stops. You make an impression.

Corvettes are great cars, have a long and proud history, and perhaps the most recognized automotive nameplate in the US.

Vipers are upstarts. They are essentially pure racing cars with no frills and doesn't even try to be popular.

There were 712 Vipers built last year.

There were 35,310 Corvettes built (7731 Z06s).



FWIW 10,337 Nissan 350Zs were made last year... and they are the most popular sports car behind Corvette, Miata, and... gasp...Solstice!

Most certainly, there is rivalry between Z06s and Vipers. But consider that the rivalry is between a version of a Corvette, and the regular Dodge Viper.

I agree 100% that a Z06 is a serious machine. But I'm in no way sold on the ZR1 quite yet. It's packed with lots of gee-whiz, high tech stuff. But ZR1 is essentially a production Corvette made exotic. If you're into cars, you know a ZR1 when you see it. If you aren't, it looks like a customized Corvette... and here in California, that's not all that special. Traffic still stops at the sight of a less capable Ford GT, though.... never underestimate the power of rare looks over capability.



For the record, if I personally were to buy a car between the 2 for my own use, I'd pick Corvette. Not because it's the more serious car of the 2, but because it's the more livable of the 2.

I have heaps of respect for the Viper, and a whole trailerful of admiration, and as you may notice, a certain amount of worship for the car.

Thing is, Viper is a purpose specific car. You don't buy a Viper to drive to work every day, and you certainly don't take regular road trips in it. Corvette you can because it has far more compromises, and more goodies to keep you entertained.

Corvette is the car I'd buy when I retire (for real), and have the morgage paid and my girl is finished college.

The Viper is the car I'd buy if I hit the lottery and I've already bought my CTSv or M5 sedan daily driver.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

Well you're looking at this from a racing perspective and I was thinking more production vehicle. I don't know a lot of the Viper's racing history but it seemed like after Team Oreca that Dodge turned to a more privateer route with the Competition Coupe.

IMO there is a lot of car love at Fiat and of all the vehicles they are inheriting from Chrysler the most foreign is certainly the Rams but maybe the most fun is the Viper. If you think about it the Viper in it's raw state is a lot like an Italian sports car; big engine, stunning style and a lot or manual effort to pilot. The Viper obviously could use an Italian upgrade inside but I just felt that if anyone was going to understand the Viper it was Fiat. The economics of it essentially already being engineered and paid for is just business support for an emotional decision.

-In talking racing and the GT class I agree the Corvette Team will add a lot of spice to that group but I would be lying if I told you I wouldn't miss the GT1/S Vettes. But the cost and competition is certainly a better business model and a closer production link for GM.

 

Gonna throw my 2 cents in and then I'm going to the block party at Irish Bank (anyone in the bay area, ya gotta go! ).

Fiat is proving to be the perfect fit for Chrysler. Almost each day something new comes up that makes it seem that these are the first guys to really "get" Chrysler, and has enthusiasm for the company since the day Bob Lutz moved out of his Chrysler office 10 years ago.

The old Chrysler tried to get rid of Viper, kill off the PT, and put SRT out to pasture.

To date, Fiat has reversed all of that, and moved ahead with a even bigger Hemi for the Challenger (which will almost certainly find it's way into at least the Charger if not also the 300!). Fiat is also looking at creating a model using Chrysler's LX sedan for sale in Europe under their own brand. Fiat even seems to be excited about Dodge Ram pickups and the fact that they now own the world's most popular minivan. It's almost like watching kids on Christmas morning opening presents.

Sharp contrast to when Daimler took over Chrysler, and started closing plants, laying off workers, and shutting off the new product pipeline. Or when Cerberus came in with high hopes, and then seemingly didn't spend a dime on anything that wasn't already in the pipeline or already set up.

While I feel that GM is now unstoppable in it's recovery, Chrysler has some work to do. GM's product pipeline not only was never cut off, GM seems to be suddenly moving faster than any carmaker I've ever seen (wait till you see how fast the Chevrolet Caprice gets here now that it's been greenlighted!). Chrysler on the other hand has no new vehicles on the horizon till the end of next year (when a new Jeep, 300, and Charger show up).

While GM will have a couple of all new small cars on line by late next year as will Ford, Chrysler is stuck with the Caliber as their smallest vehicle till year after next.

Chrysler's challenge is to keep their current crop of cars moving, and keep excitement and intrest in the brand till the new cars show up (something GM doesn't have to worry about).

I guess looking at it this way, Fiat may not have a choice but to keep the PT Cruiser (still a strong seller) & the Viper (showroom traffic and fanatical devotees), and greenlight a bigger, even more powerful Hemi for the Challenger & Charger (more car mag press, more intrest).

But it's still refreshing to see a group of people looking excited about Chrysler after having Chrysler owned by 2 successive groups that bought into Chrysler for ulterior motives that weren't exactly in Chrysler's best intrest... to say the least.

 

So whats your prediction of how fast?

 

Agreed. The Viper is still something to behold when I see one go buy, Vettes are , at least for me...

 

Keep in mind, I'm only speculating. The project's been approved, but I don't yet know it there's going to be any design changes beyond the middle east version.

If they keep the middle east front and rear, it could be here as soon as year's end to the 1st quarter of next year (6-8 months).

If they want to put the US Chevrolet front end design on the car, then later next year.


Here's what I think will happen.... again, speculating on my part based on tidbits I'm aware of.

I think the car will get here quickly in Middle East form. Despite what seemed to be publically a cool reception from Fritz, I suspect GM is absolutely hellbent on getting the Chevy Holden here ASAP.

GM is highly motivated due to the Crown Victoria's 90% ownership of the law enforcement vehicle market and the fact that by early next year, there will be no Crown Victoria, freeing up a massive opportunity that has the potential to sell far more VEs than Pontiac was able to do with the G8. Otherwise, Dodge's Charger will get a foothold in the LE market, and GM will not be able to convincingly break through. The LE volume will be rounded out by civilian Caprices.

I think that after GM gets the car here, then it will use look at redesigning the car. I feel they will use Holden's upcoming Zeta redesign to produce at Holden what would have been the RWD Impala (named Caprice to avoid issues with Oshawa owning the Impala name the way G8 was used to avoud using Grand Prix... also owned by the Oshawa plant). This will tie Chevrolet's Middle East, Latin America, and North America designs into a single global language already used with Chevrolet cars sourced from the Americas and Korea.

Again, that's just my um... speculation.