The only thing I see that is even close to dying may be the Manual transmission.

But RWD is NOT dying. As someone stated here the Grand Prix,& the Montie & a few other cars Should be going RWD with in the next 5 to 10 years.

& havent you heard the CAMARO is fighting it way back.

 

Traditional autos are on their way out, too. AMTs, particularly the dual-clutch/twin-layshaft variety, are the wave of the future. As we approach the end of the internal-combustion era, the distinction between manuals and autos will likely disappear.

ProudPony makes the best point in this thread with regards to his comments on hub-mounted electric motors that, for the most part, will eliminate the drivetrain as we know it. While many enthusiasts will shun this technology, it's got the potential to complete change the way we think about vehicle dynamics and packaging. I eagerly await the maturation of GM's "skateboard" concept, whether it's them or someone else that brings it to market.

 

I don't think it's simply do-gooders. It's also buyer cycles.

The person who bought a high powered sports coupe some years ago, now has a family, and is looking at something bigger and more luxurious and safer now (even you fell into that path and Darth is considering letting his GTO go). Instead of hundreds of horsepower, practicality is more important now.

Unless there is a bulge of younger people in the population to take your place, sales are going to drop, and carmakers faced with limited resources are going to put the money where the sales are. When our kids get grown, and go out on their own, then we go looking for toys for ourselves that remind us of the cars we gave up. Take an age group like the baby boomers, and you can see the cycles performance vehicles has taken.

Not to say government and insurence don't step in (or threaten to) and screw things up. But even in the 70s, the lack of sales as much as anything else did in performance, as former muscle car owners moved to Monte Carlos & Cordobas.


A few examples of effects of sales over new economy & emission rules effecting performance cars:
*'74 GTO: supposed to be the new age of muscle car, died due to poor sales.
*Monza: seen as a replacement to Camaro and the Spyder was intended to get a 4 barrel carb later. Performance version cancelled when sales didn't exactly explode & Camaro got a new lease on life & work on the 3rd gen started.
*Chrysler's F-body Roadrunner & Aspen RT (yes, they were also called F-bodies ): supposed to be Ventura GTO's competition. Capable of keeping up with Trans Ams... till roads got curvy.
*Pontiac Trans Am: saw sales rise each year, even through new emissions & safety rules.

 

Guess I better start buying T56's from salvage yards to convert all my future vehicles to a stick. I dont like autos or these new "manumatics" I like the feel of pushing in the clutch and putting it in gear myself.

At least RWD is coming back

 

I can even see the electric motors causing the AMTs and CVTs to be phased out in distant years. If you have a hub-mounted motor that is capable of the RPM's necessary to travel at posted speeds, you eliminate the need for gearboxes. The cool thing about electric motors is their ability to produce maximum torque at various speeds, so the gearbox becomes less significant. Locomotives have used this principle for years now.

As for the direct drive electrical systems and my comment about u-joints and such... we can all see that distance and refueling issues are paramount issues with hybrids and fuel cells both right now. Well, any residual loses contribute to the power consumption and adversely affect the range. All components like u-joints, couplings, seals and such are less than 100% efficient and have friction losses - so the fewer components you have in the driveline, the more efficient it will be. Right now, direct drive (or hub-mounted) motors are the optimum. The down side is how complicated it can make the suspension geometry.

Imagine a driving rear wheel drive vehicle with no axles, no differential, and no brakes on the rear wheels!!! (at least as we know them)
(regenerative braking puts electricity back into a cpacitor bank which is re-used to get the car going again after the stop). My personal thoughts include making the motor itself an integral part of the suspension framework. The mind is unlimited in this genre.

 

Well, most traditional DC motors generate maximum torque at zero RPM, and then it falls off linearly until it reaches zero at maximum RPM. This is due to the back EMF (generator effect) produced as RPMs increase. While that's great for strong off-the-line performance, it limits acceleration at higher speeds (where the squaring effect of aerodynamic forces combines with the fall-off in the torque curve to cause a very rapid decrease in thrust available for acceleration). Locomotives get around this issue by switching the armature and stator windings into different series and parallel configurations in an attempt to smooth-out the power delivery (in effect, it's like rewinding the motor on-the-fly); it's not inconceivable that the same method could be used in a hybrid or fully-electric automobile drivetrain. It's just a matter of money.

The bottom line, though, is exactly what you stated - traditional multi-ratio transmissions go away with hub-mounted electric drive motors.

 

Spot-on!

(PS - I think we've lost some of the others here...
we seem to be talking to ourselves about what we both already seem to know...
Where's everybody else... )

 

Maybe because the topic of the thread was the death of RWD, not the death of transmissions by way of transitioning to hub-mounted individual electric motors...



The "skateboard" concept was an interesting one indeed.

BTW, Eric, it's nice to see you posting again, now and then.

 

Yes it was. And unfortunately probably something we won't see for a /long/ time. Unless Gasoline shoot to the stratosphere.

 

DCX still believes in RWD and it is paying off big time. Mercedes sells mostly all RWD cars, Dodge has the Magnum/Charger/Viper and Chrysler has the 300C/Crossfire just to name a few.

 

I have a question. Why isn't AWD being used more and more in new cars? People say it's so far superior to anything else but it's only in a few cars.

 

Expensive, More parts to break, Heavier, Fuel Economy could possibly drop some. Let's not get into the FWD, AWD, RWD argument again, lol.

 

I just have to say this Long Live Internal Combustion! Whew! I had to get that off my chest. The death of RWD has already happened, now its on its way back, thank God! I do see the benefits of having a paddle shifted auto/manual type trans. However there will always be those myself included, that will still want to row our own, and those that don't care! I certainly don't think IC is winding down!

 

I hope not. I/C engines are terribly ineffecient.

That's like saying "Long Live Outhouses!" because they were developed at about the same era.

They have served their purpose, but God is it time to put some R&D into different powertrains.

 

You are right, they are not very energy efficient.

But, lots of R&D IS being put into other powertrains, by lots of people (and has been for a while). However, oil is cheap and the infrastructure is established, so any sort of transition is going to be slow and not cheap...