HuJass

Not personal. Just wondering why you would lurk in a Camaro/GM fan site and then just talk politics 5 years after joining. Seems strange to me. That's almost troll-like.

And I don't think we really know what America feels. All the polls I've seen are all over the place. So they're worthless. So you can't make that assertion.

I know there are critics. But these critics are either not totally educated on the issue or, even worse, they don't want to be.
Critics are blinded by their ideologies. They can't see the big picture.

guionM

Most educated people will actually look into something and think things through.

You haven't. And refuse to.

It's been explained what the issue is.
It's been pointed out clearly that it's not the UAW, and hasn't been for years.
I myself have given a very detained explaination of how both Chrysler and GM got to their current situation.
It's been pointed out that Imports use the same UAW suppliers as the big 3.
It's been pointed out that Ford used the same UAW GM does.

But yet you still seem hellbent on being a parrot for 3 southern senators looking to protect the programs in their state to attract transplant factories.

No, Adam. This isn't personal.

You're just coming across as an idiot.

Not only because you fail to see what's going on or even take a moment to look things up yourself....

You actually came to a GM website, full of GM fans and enthusiasts to enthusiastically support the destruction and liquidation of General Motors.

That's not personal.

That's all on you, bud.

Adam4356

certainly not trying to be a troll. I lurk for info and discussion. Involved now only because this is the only board that i frequent that is banging out discussion on the subject. spend most time and posts at ls1gto.com and buckeyegoats.com

i'll tone it down now. I think i've said and ranted my piece.

Big Als Z

There are many people that want the Big 3 to keep moving but not always in favor of the UAW.
I am one of thoes people.

SCNGENNFTHGEN

Great read. Nail on the head! I have said this for years NOW here it is...The gov't aided by the media are very close to seeing all their hard work, come to fruition! Congratulations Traders!! Crazy is like beauty...in the eye of the beholder!

SRFCTY

Stop speaking for "most of America". The car companies want a LOAN...pure and simple. Calling it a bailout is an insult, and helping to spread the negativity toward the car companies. It will cost the US government (re: taxpayers) a lot more money if these companies fail. Give them the loan, and the opportunity to right themselves, as other institutions have had. Let them prove they have the proper plans in place to turn this around, as it will be good for all of us in the long run.

onebadponcho

All this coming from a person who owns not one, but TWO JAPANESE ATVs. For someone who rails on about "buying American", I mean, haven't you ever heard of Polaris? I guess that makes us ALL traitors. Find me one person that every piece of everything they own is made in the USA. Good luck. Are you going to blame the government and the media on that too?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28209112

Number one, GM/Chrysler don't "want" anything. However, they do need government (OUR) funds VERY soon or they will have no choice but to go bankrupt. If they're going to ask for money from me, I can call it whatever the **** I want, it's that simple. Semantics aside, it's not a "loan" until it's paid back; until then, I'm calling it a forced "donation". It's also funny that our friends in the UAW don't want to make concessions until their current contract expires in 2011, yet they want ALL OF US to take a paycut RIGHT NOW to fund this "donation" to their favorite charity. GM/Chrysler wonder why it seems like they have to "twist our arms" just to get this "donation", yet it seems WE have to twist their arms to do anything at all. "Give us this money or else" seems to be their mantra. Can you say "blackmail"? What "too-big-to-fail" entities will be next in line with their hands out saying "Give us this money or else"? With that precedent set, I GUARANTEE that line will NEVER end.
It seems like the parties involved that NEED this infusion of money from US need to be doing more on their end to ensure their own survival instead of asking the rest of us to save their @$$e$. WHEN the White House/Federal Reserve gives them this "forced donation/bridge loan", and when they've burnt through that money and come back asking for more, I guess I'm just going to say, "Sorry, I can't make any more 'concessions'. I've done enough already".
As much as all of us hate to see it, the bottom line is these entities have failed, and it's time we stopped rewarding failure in this country!

SCNGENNFTHGEN

LMAO.... "All this coming from a person who owns not one, but TWO JAPANESE ATVs. For someone who rails on about "buying American", I mean, haven't you ever heard of Polaris? I guess that makes us ALL traitors. Find me one person that every piece of everything they own is made in the USA. Good luck. Are you going to blame the government and the media on that too?">>>>> #1. I didn't purchase either of my atv's new, so I haven't sent a chunk of my $ over to Japan, as so many do in the case of the auto industry! #2 The ATV industry didn't help the country when push came to shove, like the American auto industry does consistently. To imply that they are even on the same scale is ridiculous IMO. I am fully aware of Polaris, and Can-Am (Bombardier), and Cannondale who themselves had some pretty badass quads. We have Polaris and Can-am quads in our group of riders. Many of which were also NOT bought new by their owners. Don't see me trashing any of them, do you? And I would be looking at any of those before I bought a NEW quad! What I'd really like to find is a salvageable Buell, so I can build my own quad around an American V-Twin. IF I buy anything new, it'll be a Camaro. The media and the gov't ARE at fault for ALOT more than many would give them credit for! And I consider many inside these 2 to be traders. JMO. You are certainly entitled to disagree, or even call me a trader if you must! Maybe I don't speak for " Most Americans" as some of US seem to do?

onebadponcho

Reread this:
So EVERYTHING you buy is made in the USA?

I bet the very monitor you're looking at right now says "Made In China" on the back, and the very thing you type this BS on this board says it's made in the same place.

My point is that doesn't make you a traitor. You need to get a grip.

JasonD

Points made. Back on the subject. Anything otherwise needs to go to PM.

ad356

and another. i have never been in a position to buy a new car, money has always been tight. however, i will let you guys know that between my wife and i, we have 3 Chevrolet vehicles park in my driveway. the have and are great to us. reliable, easy and cheap to maintain, great styling. my wife and i wouldnt have it any other way. i am highly upset to see one of the great american car companies in such distress. i think driving a chevy is also my way of making a statement "I HATE IMPORTS"!!! i hope GM makes it out of this mess and becomes a strong healthy company that can take back the market share that is rightfully theirs. i hope this isnt all just wishful thinking.
our vehicles. i cant afford a new car, but i wish the people of General motors understands that i support their efforts to survive. if i ever get money i would look at a new camaro.
1998 cavalier 2.2L. wife's car she loves it. great on fuel. reliable and strong running 2.2L I4. 105K miles on original drive train and strong as a new car.
1991 cavalier 2.2L TBI. my year round car. great little run-about. great on gas, cheap to maintain, cheap to insure, reliable, southern car with no rust. 140K+ on original 2.2L engine. runs great always dependable
1989 camaro RS 305. i think we all know how we feel about our camaros. awesome car. fun to drive, easy to maintain, above average fuel economy for a v8, t tops. again southern car no rust. this baby is NOT driven in the winter. 172K on original 305 engine and 700R4 trans. still dependable trusted this car on several long road trips, 600+ miles each way.

i also attempt to buy everything else american when possible. i own 4 small engine products. 1 briggs powered pressure washer, a briggs powered 1974 toro snowblower, a kohler k series powered 1971 john deere 112 with snowblower attachment and mower, 1 briggs powered walk behind mower. i will never own a honda small engine. i will only buy american made engines, weather or not in my car or in my single cylinder powered utility equipment.

SCNGENNFTHGEN

It's very hard to take everything foreign out of our lives these days, but we can damn sure try! It's nice to see other people still think it's important to buy American wherever possible. There isn't any industry though, that compares to the American auto industry IMO.

SSbaby

There's nothing like an automobile. There's isn't any technology as emotionally evocative.

It's symbolic of America and the freedoms its people are allowed to enjoy. The American automobile is what has separated Americans from the rest of the world. Affordability, Practicality, Value, Performance, Mobility, Sociability and Fun. GM, Ford and Chrysler are all part of that equation and I'm sure there's been many fond memories of persons who have relied on American made cars.

It's just unfortunate that some Americans feel the need to stick the knife into the American car industry. How soon some of us forget the foundations the USA was built upon. Henry Ford must be rolling in his grave at the attitude of some...

ad356

it really truely is pitiful, isnt is. i haven't forgotten the ford, gm, and chrysler are the only american car companies. toyota and honda certainly are NOT. i have found GM cars and light trucks to be of the highest quality. im quite pleased with them and i will not betray America. i also love of some idiots say that "american cars are gas guzzlers". NOT TRUE. my 91 cavalier a gas guzzler, its 20 years old and still gets 28 MPG. my wife car is also excellent on gas. GM makes a vehicle for every market. if you dont want a gas guzzler buy a cobalt XFE or a malibu hybrid, or even a tahoe hybrid(the most fuel efficeint SUV in its class). when people pin the image of gas guzzler on a company your could easily apply that to toyota and nissan. a toyota sequoia IS A GUZZLER and so is a nissan armada as is a toyota tundra and nissan titan. in fact GM trucks beat toyota trucks in fuel efficiency. if GM wasnt pressured to kill off the EV1, they would have had a car that would have been FAR more efficient and better performing then that piece of crap known as the pruis. in fact, GM might still catch up with the upcoming volt. i think people that drive imports guzzle idiotic comments about the american car and auto industry.

SCNGENNFTHGEN

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more with either of you guys here. Henry Ford, Harley Earl, Zora Arkus Duntov, all of em' must be rolling over at all of this crap going on. It's really amazing that they've conveyed this hate for the American auto industry onto so many Americans. My GM's have been great to me. I hope that one day I'll be able to buy a brand new car. IF GM goes under I never will! No industry can be compared to it. NONE, not my damn computer screen here (which I also didn't buy new BTW), my quads, my RC nitros, nothing. None of it even comes close to the American auto industry...