daytime running lights in europe
11-15-2006, 03:18 PM
#1
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Location: Methuen/UMass Dartmouth
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11-15-2006, 03:32 PM
#2
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 13,711
I SERIOUSLY dispise daytime running lights. 
On my Camaro, at least I can put the parking brake up a click and don't have to deal with it. But you can't do it on my dad's Silverado or alot of other new GM cars because you get a continuous warning chime.
If the 5th gen Camaro and 2010 Mustang are a tough choice, or Camaro has a slight edge in my choice, I'd buy the Mustang simply because of DRL.
If I had known my '97 had DRLs that you couldn't turn off when I bought it (I test drove it in the late evening) I would have never bought it, and probally would have gotten a Cobra or spent more money modding my SC.
On my Camaro, at least I can put the parking brake up a click and don't have to deal with it. But you can't do it on my dad's Silverado or alot of other new GM cars because you get a continuous warning chime.
If the 5th gen Camaro and 2010 Mustang are a tough choice, or Camaro has a slight edge in my choice, I'd buy the Mustang simply because of DRL.
If I had known my '97 had DRLs that you couldn't turn off when I bought it (I test drove it in the late evening) I would have never bought it, and probally would have gotten a Cobra or spent more money modding my SC.
11-15-2006, 03:36 PM
#4
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
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DRL's have been standard (required
) on all cars sold in Canada since around ~1996 I believe? 
It's actually an important (legal) issue if someone buys a vehicle from the US and brings it into Canada ... you have to hook up DRL's, whether by factory wiring/lights, or by other acceptable means.
I "personally" think DRL's are probably one of the best/worst ideas. Yes, cars are more visible (conspicuous) with their headlights ON, so I can see the reasoning behind the requirement. BUT, do you know how many cars I see driving at night time (especially bad around dusk, into the earlier hours of the night) with NO tail-lights, only headlights?? (and they're dim at that, so you know they're the DRL's). At least cars equipped with "automatic headlights" turn on ALL the lights for you (including dash lights) when it gets dark. But DRL's don't work like that, and as a result, people can see in front of them, but if they're too dumb to realize they don't have dash lights, and figure out that they need to switch the lights ON, they shouldn't be allowed to drive a car.
BUT, it's the DRL laws that setup this situation in the first place. Otherwise, once it gets dark, most people would know to turn on their head-lights in the first place.
I question their estimates for how much more pollution will be in the air because of running DRL's though??? Maybe I'm naive, but I can't believe that headlights are going to cause that much more fuel to be burned?? 
(although it's probably worse on a smaller, lower HP engine than it would be on a higher HP engine 
).
) on all cars sold in Canada since around ~1996 I believe? It's actually an important (legal) issue if someone buys a vehicle from the US and brings it into Canada ... you have to hook up DRL's, whether by factory wiring/lights, or by other acceptable means.I "personally" think DRL's are probably one of the best/worst ideas. Yes, cars are more visible (conspicuous) with their headlights ON, so I can see the reasoning behind the requirement. BUT, do you know how many cars I see driving at night time (especially bad around dusk, into the earlier hours of the night) with NO tail-lights, only headlights??
(and they're dim at that, so you know they're the DRL's). At least cars equipped with "automatic headlights" turn on ALL the lights for you (including dash lights) when it gets dark. But DRL's don't work like that, and as a result, people can see in front of them, but if they're too dumb to realize they don't have dash lights, and figure out that they need to switch the lights ON, they shouldn't be allowed to drive a car.BUT, it's the DRL laws that setup this situation in the first place. Otherwise, once it gets dark, most people would know to turn on their head-lights in the first place.
I question their estimates for how much more pollution will be in the air because of running DRL's though???
Maybe I'm naive, but I can't believe that headlights are going to cause that much more fuel to be burned?? (although it's probably worse on a smaller, lower HP engine than it would be on a higher HP engine ).
11-15-2006, 04:11 PM
#6
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 13,711
2. Pulling into parking spaces in apartment complexes where your parking space points right into your light-sleeping neighbor's bedroom window when you get in from your late hour job. Another situation where GM ensures your popularity.
There's quite a few other instances where I called GM every name in the book, including swearing off more than once buying another GM product that had this feature where I couldn't disconnect or bypass it.
It's really a no brainer... you twist a switch.... you turn on your lights.
It's not rocket science. It's not difficult. Doing it doesn't endanger the public unless someone happens to be too busy putting on their makeup while sipping a Starbucks Mocha while chatting on their cell phone at dusk while zipping down the freeway at 75 to reach over and twist on their lights. But in that instance, it probally doesn't matter.
Defending non-defeatable daytime running lights is like defending putting automatic transmissions with no way to shift yourself in place of manual transmissions.
Unlike DRL, at least you can make a sane case for mandatory automatics. It's sure takes alot more effort to shift through 5 or 6 gears than it does to turn your lights on, it's far safer for everyone (no stalling in traffic, no accidential learching in parking spaces or at pedestrian crosswalks, cheaper costs for the manufacturer), and you never run into a situation where you have to turn your transmission off.
11-15-2006, 04:22 PM
#7
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,943
Daytime running lights and to some extent, "automatic" headlights are the typical kind it big-brother, complicated answer to a very simple problem...I don't know that they would ever keep me from buying a particular vehicle but I don't like them.
I almost always drive with my headlights on but I decide when they go on and off and I like it that way...I have automatic headlights on my truck and never use the feature. I always kept my headlights (or at least parking lights) on my Z/28 turned on to keep the DRL off.
A bit of public education and ticketing people who refuse to (or are too stupoid to) turn their headlights on at night would solve a lot of the problem.
I almost always drive with my headlights on but I decide when they go on and off and I like it that way...I have automatic headlights on my truck and never use the feature. I always kept my headlights (or at least parking lights) on my Z/28 turned on to keep the DRL off.
A bit of public education and ticketing people who refuse to (or are too stupoid to) turn their headlights on at night would solve a lot of the problem.
Last edited by Robert_Nashville; 11-15-2006 at 04:28 PM.
11-15-2006, 04:38 PM
#8
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I really don't care for the cars having their headlights used as DRLs. At least with the F-bodies it's only the turn signal/running light that is illuminated. I like that feature, especially in San Diego where it is frequently foggy by the coast. The problem is, you never know about the accident you avoided by having the DRLs. Again, I do not want the headlights on, but I like the way GM did the F-bodies.
Automatic headlights are another issue, and yes, the same people who forget to put their headlights on at dusk are the same ones running around at night with ONLY their headlights on, only because they came on automatically. There really is no cure for stupidity.
Automatic headlights are another issue, and yes, the same people who forget to put their headlights on at dusk are the same ones running around at night with ONLY their headlights on, only because they came on automatically. There really is no cure for stupidity.
11-15-2006, 04:44 PM
#9
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
FWIW, I disabled the "automatic headlight feature" of my Camaro, because I HATED not being in "control" (huh, control freak? 
) of my lights . A few minutes and some simple wiring, and OFF go my headlights at night at the flip of a switch! 
Probably one of the best "mods" I ever did to my car.
Now HERE'S a thought ... my Mom's Jeep Grand Cherokee has an "Automatic" position on the light switch, so if you WANT auto-lights, you get them, OR, turn them ON and OFF as desired
. That would be good.
But I realize this isn't addressing DRL's as much as it is auto-headlights. I've got mixed feelings over DRL's .
) of my lights . A few minutes and some simple wiring, and OFF go my headlights at night at the flip of a switch! Probably one of the best "mods" I ever did to my car.Now HERE'S a thought ... my Mom's Jeep Grand Cherokee has an "Automatic" position on the light switch, so if you WANT auto-lights, you get them, OR, turn them ON and OFF as desired
. That would be good.But I realize this isn't addressing DRL's as much as it is auto-headlights
. I've got mixed feelings over DRL's .
11-15-2006, 04:47 PM
#10
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
1. Pulling onto military bases, all of which REQUIRE you to turn off your headlights (was alot of fun pulling onto bases in the high alert immediately after 9/11 repeatedly convincing skitish guards with rifles and M-16s not familiar with GM's stupidity on this that they wired their cars where you can't turn your lights off!).
2. Pulling into parking spaces in apartment complexes where your parking space points right into your light-sleeping neighbor's bedroom window when you get in from your late hour job. Another situation where GM ensures your popularity.
There's quite a few other instances where I called GM every name in the book, including swearing off more than once buying another GM product that had this feature where I couldn't disconnect or bypass it.
It's really a no brainer... you twist a switch.... you turn on your lights.
It's not rocket science. It's not difficult. Doing it doesn't endanger the public unless someone happens to be too busy putting on their makeup while sipping a Starbucks Mocha while chatting on their cell phone at dusk while zipping down the freeway at 75 to reach over and twist on their lights. But in that instance, it probally doesn't matter.
Defending non-defeatable daytime running lights is like defending putting automatic transmissions with no way to shift yourself in place of manual transmissions.
Unlike DRL, at least you can make a sane case for mandatory automatics. It's sure takes alot more effort to shift through 5 or 6 gears than it does to turn your lights on, it's far safer for everyone (no stalling in traffic, no accidential learching in parking spaces or at pedestrian crosswalks, cheaper costs for the manufacturer), and you never run into a situation where you have to turn your transmission off.
2. Pulling into parking spaces in apartment complexes where your parking space points right into your light-sleeping neighbor's bedroom window when you get in from your late hour job. Another situation where GM ensures your popularity.
There's quite a few other instances where I called GM every name in the book, including swearing off more than once buying another GM product that had this feature where I couldn't disconnect or bypass it.
It's really a no brainer... you twist a switch.... you turn on your lights.
It's not rocket science. It's not difficult. Doing it doesn't endanger the public unless someone happens to be too busy putting on their makeup while sipping a Starbucks Mocha while chatting on their cell phone at dusk while zipping down the freeway at 75 to reach over and twist on their lights. But in that instance, it probally doesn't matter.
Defending non-defeatable daytime running lights is like defending putting automatic transmissions with no way to shift yourself in place of manual transmissions.
Unlike DRL, at least you can make a sane case for mandatory automatics. It's sure takes alot more effort to shift through 5 or 6 gears than it does to turn your lights on, it's far safer for everyone (no stalling in traffic, no accidential learching in parking spaces or at pedestrian crosswalks, cheaper costs for the manufacturer), and you never run into a situation where you have to turn your transmission off.
11-15-2006, 04:48 PM
#11
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Posts: n/a
FWIW, I disabled the "automatic headlight feature" of my Camaro, because I HATED not being in "control" (huh, control freak? ) of my lights . A few minutes and some simple wiring, and OFF go my headlights at night at the flip of a switch! Probably one of the best "mods" I ever did to my car.
Now HERE'S a thought ... my Mom's Jeep Grand Cherokee has an "Automatic" position on the light switch, so if you WANT auto-lights, you get them, OR, turn them ON and OFF as desired. That would be good.
But I realize this isn't addressing DRL's as much as it is auto-headlights. I've got mixed feelings over DRL's .
) of my lights . A few minutes and some simple wiring, and OFF go my headlights at night at the flip of a switch! Probably one of the best "mods" I ever did to my car.Now HERE'S a thought ... my Mom's Jeep Grand Cherokee has an "Automatic" position on the light switch, so if you WANT auto-lights, you get them, OR, turn them ON and OFF as desired
. That would be good.But I realize this isn't addressing DRL's as much as it is auto-headlights
. I've got mixed feelings over DRL's .
11-15-2006, 05:10 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Roseville, MI, USA
Posts: 1,496
On our GMC Jimmy and Chevy Blazers, as well as S-10's and Sonoma's, all you had to do was start the vehicle with the parking brake on, put the car in drive or reverse, then lift the parking brake off and the DRL's would stay off.
I havent checked if this is the case with the Envoy my mom got two months ago.
I don't mind them on my Solstice. But, I do hate how the fogs are split between the fog lights and the DRL.
I purposely ordered my Solstice without fogs because of this issue. It just looks better with one solid unit, rather than a split light.
I havent checked if this is the case with the Envoy my mom got two months ago.
I don't mind them on my Solstice. But, I do hate how the fogs are split between the fog lights and the DRL.
I purposely ordered my Solstice without fogs because of this issue. It just looks better with one solid unit, rather than a split light.
11-15-2006, 05:25 PM
#13
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Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: New Lenox, IL
Posts: 171
All these replies and I don't think I've seen one real GOOD arguement against DRLs.
I'll give you one, shortened bulb life expectancy.
There, I don't think I've read anything better than that.
I'm not for or against DRLs, but to choose one car over another because of them sounds like the absolute most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
I mean, #1) Is it really that difficult to defeat DRLs? NO!
#2) Choosing one car over another because of having DRLs means you're giving that feature as much weight in your decision as the interior or exterior, or even performance.
Now if you told me there's 2 cars made by the same company with the same drivetrain and same interior, but one model gets DRLs and one doesn't, then I can see you opting for a specific model.
Mike <-- Doesn't care about DRLs.
I'll give you one, shortened bulb life expectancy.
There, I don't think I've read anything better than that.
I'm not for or against DRLs, but to choose one car over another because of them sounds like the absolute most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
I mean, #1) Is it really that difficult to defeat DRLs? NO!
#2) Choosing one car over another because of having DRLs means you're giving that feature as much weight in your decision as the interior or exterior, or even performance.
Now if you told me there's 2 cars made by the same company with the same drivetrain and same interior, but one model gets DRLs and one doesn't, then I can see you opting for a specific model.
Mike <-- Doesn't care about DRLs.
11-15-2006, 05:31 PM
#14
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Location: manassas, VA
Posts: 808
And i agree about just defeating them obviously
11-15-2006, 06:11 PM
#15
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, Louisiana
Posts: 302
I have them on my 03 S-10 and they dont really bother me. All I have to do is push the dome over ride button 4 times quickly and it shuts them off. I think that trick might work in other GM vehicles but I havn't tried it.