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Cylinder Count Ain't What it Used to Be

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Old 07-22-2009, 10:25 PM
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Cylinder Count Ain't What it Used to Be

http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/07/...sed-to-be.html

DEARBORN, Mich. - Here we go again: in a repeat of not-too-successful experiments of the past, automakers are once again going to see if luxury-car buyers will go for 4-cylinder engines.

General Motors Co.'s Buick will offer base version of its new 2010 LaCrosse upper-midsize sedan later this year with a 4-cylinder under the hood. GM execs have said the Cadillac division won't rule it out.

The Lexus HS 250h goes on sale next month and although attention will focus the fact it's a hybrid, the HS 250h still is working with a 4-cylinder engine - a first for Toyota Motor Corp.'s premium division.

Audi AG, with one of the industry's most solid small-engine reputations, will push the envelope with a new 4-cylinder variant of its 2010 A5 coupe, which the company says already is on the way to U.S. showrooms.

BMW, the world's biggest maker of luxury cars, probably will bring back four-cylinder engines, the company's top U.S. engineer was quoted as saying last week.

And here at Ford Motor Co.'s headquarters, the company's chief powertrain executive says there's no functional reason 4-cylinder power couldn't be considered as a viable option somewhere in the Lincoln premium-brand lineup.

New-Age Sensibility Or A Repeat Train Wreck?

Recent - and not so recent - examples of the often uncomfortable marriage between luxo-vehicles and 4-cylinder engines are numerous: the Cadillac Cimmaron. BMW's 318. The Mercedes-Benz C230.

The difference this time from failed attempts of the past: more-sophisticated technology. And different socio-economic and environmental attitudes that may predispose buyers to accept less sheer performance as a tradeoff for improved economy and environmental impact.

New turbocharger designs and direct fuel injection are advanced new technologies that can combine, as with Ford's much-hyped "EcoBoost" engines - to pump up the output of 4-cylinder engines to a level unthinkable with contemporary technology available for the 1980s Cimarron.

"Specific output" is the term for how powerful and engine is in relation to its displacement; forced induction such as turbocharging and torque-pumping direct injection bring an almost entirely new level of power that can be produced from just four cylinders.

Not long ago, 80 horsepower per liter of displacement from a conventional V6 was pretty formidable power. Now, Ford engineers speak of 115 horsepower per liter - or better - from a 2-liter EcoBoost 4-cylinder engine coming next year. A slightly larger 4-cylinder could thump out 300 horses or more - more than equal to today's best V6s and even challenging some V8s.

The Times Are A' Changin'

The technical ability to get expected levels of luxury-vehicle performance from 4-cylinder engines is there. But will customers accept the idea of 4-cylinder power?

"I think the days of counting up cylinders are over," Barb Samardzich, Ford's vice president for global powertrain engineering, told AutoObserver.

"We have a set of DNA (for luxury or luxury-sport models). As long as we're meeting that DNA, I think the customer will accept that (a 4-cylinder engine)."

At Buick, the proposition for the 2010 LaCrosse might be a little more nip-and-tuck: the LaCrosse's 2.4-liter 4-cylinder uses torque-boosting direct injection, but is not turbocharged. The engine develops 182 horsepower and the 4-cylinder LaCrosse will weigh in the neighborhood of 3,900 pounds.

Susan Docherty, vice president for Buick-Pontiac-GMC, thinks LaCrosse buyers opting for the 4-cylinder - it's offered only for the base LaCrosse CX trim level - will be more focused on the projected 20 miles per gallon city/30 mpg highway fuel economy than on absolute power.

"It doesn't matter whether you're a premium buyer," Docherty said of the new rules in the luxury market. "Everybody's concerned about fuel economy."

Lincoln hasn't pulled the trigger on a 4-cylinder engine just yet - it's using 3.5-liter V6s with EcoBoost technology for the 2010 Lincoln MKS and MKT to replicate V8 power without the corresponding fuel consumption - but Samardzich said there's no engineering reason an EcoBoost-enhanced 4-cylinder couldn't be used by Lincoln. The brand just has to be careful to avoid a potentially overzealous application.

Four-cylinder power "has possibilities," for the luxury-sport market, Samardzich said.

"I think expectations on fuel efficiency and environmental consciousness are there," for premium-car customers, she added, but says marketing plays a key role. "You have to have a dialogue around the attributes you're giving the customer."

"I think there's going to be a shift," says one GM engineering source. "There are people who are never going back to big engines."

Samardzich said Lincoln marketers would have to make the final call on EcoBoost 4-cylinder power for future Lincolns, but cautions that even high-tech 4-cylinder power has limitations: she sees potential for vehicle sizes up to the C-D range, but believes full D-segment-sized vehicles would be too large for any kind of 4-cylinder power.

"The true D-size is a stretch," she said, conceding that Ford engineers and marketers are having discussions right now about where in the Ford and Lincoln model lineups 4-cylinder engines might have potential.

Fuel economy is going to be important, Samardzich said, even for luxury buyers. But she insists Ford won't assume any compromises from a premium-vehicle buyer about performance, either.

"You can't let your customer down," she said. "Not in this business."
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:54 AM
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The obvious question is, are more luxury buyers demanding 4-cylinder engines or is CAFE demanding it?

Personally, if I'm in the position to buy a Caddy/Lincoln/MB/BMW, I'm not worried about filling the tank.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:13 AM
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I hate that they only offer small engines on base trim levels. What if someone doesn't care about performance, cares a lot about fuel economy, and wants a nicely appointed car? That's not me, but there are a LOT of people out there that fit that bill.

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Old 07-23-2009, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Z28Wilson

Personally, if I'm in the position to buy a Caddy/Lincoln/MB/BMW, I'm not worried about filling the tank.

x2.

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Old 07-23-2009, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
The obvious question is, are more luxury buyers demanding 4-cylinder engines or is CAFE demanding it?

Personally, if I'm in the position to buy a Caddy/Lincoln/MB/BMW, I'm not worried about filling the tank.
I think when gas was over $4 more were demanding it. Most people with money didn't get there by being stupid with it. A lot just want the luxury badge.

I imagine the 2.4L in the Lacrosse will be targeting the more thrifty buyer and will represent a small portion of Lacrosse buyers. It also positions Buick in a good spot for when $4 gas returns and a 32mpg full size car is good for advertising.

I think a large 4cyl. would work in the BMW 1 series here in the US, it has 3 of them in Europe http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...4c_petrol.html

I could also see the Regal and Alpha Caddy getting a 2nd gen LNF turbo 2.0L
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Z28x
I think a large 4cyl. would work in the BMW 1 series here in the US, it has 3 of them in Europe
Yeah, diesels work in Europe too. So do Smart cars and Tata Nano-type vehicles.

My guess is that CAFE is driving a lot of this thought process, the other stuff is just a convenient side story.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
Personally, if I'm in the position to buy a Caddy/Lincoln/MB/BMW, I'm not worried about filling the tank.
Maybe it's not about money. Maybe they just want to feel good about getting good fuel economy.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:14 AM
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I agree. They are getting 182/174 hp/ft-lbs out of the 2.4L DI engine. It gets 32mpg highway in a crossover. Why wouldn't I want that in my car if gas is $4?
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JakeRobb
I hate that they only offer small engines on base trim levels. What if someone doesn't care about performance, cares a lot about fuel economy, and wants a nicely appointed car? That's not me, but there are a LOT of people out there that fit that bill.

GM offered the XR (upper) trim level of the Saturn Aura with a 4-cylinder 6-speed auto for the first time in 2009, whereas before the 3.6L 6-cyl 6-speed auto was standard on the XR. They cited customer trends to want a nicely equipped car with 4-cylinder fuel economy. I'm glad because I didn't want the 6-cyl and I wouldn't have bought the Aura if the XR4 trim wasn't offered.

Even though the 4-cyl might not be available in the CXS Lacrosse, the fact that it will be available in the CXL which is already a VERY nice VERY nicely equipped vehicle is sufficient for me. The majority of the CXS upgrades aren't really luxury anyway... they're more performance oriented.

Other manufacturers either currently offer or are soon to offer premium cars with great fuel economy. Lexus is REALLY playing to this trend with the HS250h. On paper I was VERY interested in the HS250h when it was first announced. In the end I found it to be ugly and about 5 grand overpriced, but they were on the right track. I also find the Acura TSX to be a very appealing vehicle except for the fact that Acura doesn't manage to get quite the mileage I think they should have from the TSX's 4-cyl.

Originally Posted by JakeRobb
Maybe it's not about money. Maybe they just want to feel good about getting good fuel economy.
I think total cost of ownership is always a consideration for anyone who is money-smart. If you are given the choice of driving a 6-cylinder mid-tier car or a 4-cylinder entry premium tier car and in the end their cost of ownership is roughly identical after 6 years due to fuel economy... a LOT of people would opt for the premium 4-cyl car.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:22 AM
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I think people would be more excepting to a turbo 4. People see it as being more advanced tech. that blends with their sophisticated car that gets good gas mileage.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:37 AM
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It's been a year and a half or so since we've seen $4 gas, and it's not coming back anytime soon, as much as some people want it to.

Gas has fallen again, as much as 25 cents or so per gallon recently, and gas is well under what the doomsayers were predicting for these peak summer months.

Gas is cheap, and it will continue to be cheap. The $4 thing was nothing but a spike in the chart... will be looked at one day as the gas crunch of the 70's is looked apon now: an anomaly.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Threxx
Even though the 4-cyl might not be available in the CXS Lacrosse, the fact that it will be available in the CXL which is already a VERY nice VERY nicely equipped vehicle is sufficient for me. The majority of the CXS upgrades aren't really luxury anyway... they're more performance oriented.
I thought that the 4cyl was only going to be in the CX at first. It would be great to have it on the CXL. I just hadn't heard that.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:01 AM
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my 4 cylinder turbo and my ls1 make about the same power and get about the same MPG.
And pretty much all turbo 4's I've seen that make any power don't get any better mpg in real life.
Maybe in controlled CAFE testing they do, but cafe isn't buying my gas.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Aaron91RS
my 4 cylinder turbo and my ls1 make about the same power and get about the same MPG.
And pretty much all turbo 4's I've seen that make any power don't get any better mpg in real life.
Maybe in controlled CAFE testing they do, but cafe isn't buying my gas.
If you tune a turbo 4 to make 320 hp, I could understand why it gets the same hp.

But there is no way an LNF gets the same real mileage of an LS1. Sure, it doesn't make the same HP, but I don't think the point of a turbo 4 from the factory is to make V8 horsepower.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Aaron91RS
my 4 cylinder turbo and my ls1 make about the same power and get about the same MPG.
And pretty much all turbo 4's I've seen that make any power don't get any better mpg in real life.
Maybe in controlled CAFE testing they do, but cafe isn't buying my gas.
According to your fquick garage your 4-cyl turbo car is heavily modded AWD 1992 Eagle Talon. I'm not sure a 17 year old modded AWD car is a prime candidate for judging the efficiency of modern day stock turbo vehicles. My 335i (6AT RWD) averages 22.5-23.5 mpg in a heavy-footed daily city commute and ~30 mpg highway at 80mph. My 06 Audi A4 2.0t 6MT FWD averaged 29-31 on that same heavy footed city commute and ~37 on the highway with an all time best of over 40 mpg. So far my 09 Aura XR-4 2.4L non turbo 4-cyl 6AT has given me 26 mpg on that same city commute with a far far lighter foot and way less power to offer even if I did lay my foot down.

Originally Posted by Plague
I thought that the 4cyl was only going to be in the CX at first. It would be great to have it on the CXL. I just hadn't heard that.
Yeah, I heard it would be available on the CXL. I think only putting it on the CX would be a mistake since very few people are going to be interested in the fairly weak equipment levels on that car. It's really looking like it'll be sold mostly to rental fleets. Plus as I was mentioning it seems GM has come to realize that there's a market for premium equipped vehicles w/ good fuel economy even if it means they're slow (oh sorry, 'don't have as much available power').
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