Aeromaks

Went today with my girlfriend.

Here are my impressions.
Tooo damn crowded. lol. Althought did take time to sit in an Isuzu xl-7 suv, which i must say, for $26k, was pretty damn impressive.

Anyway, on to stuff that matters.

Rushed over to the Caddie Display to look at the CTS-V, omg, car is beyond gorgeous. Asked the lady there, who seemed to be very knowledgeable, if Bob(lutz) was going to keep his word of $35k for this car, she basicly laughed, when I did ask how much it was going to run, .........$52,596. Eh, was fun while it lasted, granted i am sure still is great car.

Chevy SS - OMG, the pics dont do it justice. In the pics here, the car looked alot like an RX8, bloated in the rear, but wow, car looks like a perfect 5th gen. Sleek, 4 door, wow, wow, wow. Although once the turning display went around, and the rear came, WTF is that. Car looks hideous from behind, the *** looks bloated and out of place. the rear fender quarter panels look fugly, gm, please rework the rear, or expand the light thingie. surprisingly, it did not draw a crowd at all, maybe 5 people max.

Pontiac GTO - Front looks amazing, was stated to be in the low to mid 30's, drew huge crowds, but too damn bland.

Caddie 16 - Holy crapola what a car,



This car is beyond gorgues, GM , bUIld it. It drew perhaps the biggest crowd of all.

Pontiac g6 - good replacement

Pontiac GXP - the Bonny GXP wow, car looks amazing, 300 hp out of a 4.0 litre aurora/caddie northstar. my kinda car.

Then, me and my girlfriend wondered off to the other side.

Ford.

Ford Mustang GT - Holy wow, car looks amazing, 400hp, out of hte GT, car really does look amazing, surprisingly, it grew a huge huge crowd, barely any space to see, drew a crowd bigger than the ferarri display.

Ford 427 - Why cant GM build this?

SVT Cobra Mysticolor - Ok, that is one cool as paintjob, lol.

Went over to the Daimler Chrysler Display.

Got to admit, them boys do have some nice hemi magnum concepts, and the chrysler concepts look good, the 300c though, the front grille, WTF is that? a Ram truck?

Thats about it, really surprised the stupidity of most people at the show, how the SS concept drew no crowd, how the caddie can do no wrong, and how Chevy Basterized the SS plate, wtf is a Malibu SS?!?!?!!?!?!?!

btw, the new Malibu looks pretty good in person.

danno02SS

$52,596 ehh? Yup that's about what I thought. M3 killer at an M3 price.

Z28Wilson

Tell me again how the LS6, upgraded brakes and an upgraded rear end adds $22,000 to the price.

Just when I thought CTS-V could be something truly special in the automotive world it turns out it will just be another rather unattainable high performance sports sedan. Gotta give GM credit for doing it but that really sours me on the car, as much as I like it.

Guess this answers the question of whether or not an affordable high performance Camaro is either needed or "obsolete" in GM's future lineup!

Darth Xed

Ya, Even I was beginning to think $35,xxx was wishful thinking, but $52,xxx?!?!?! Ya, $22k is a bit much.

But still, it is King of it's own Hill, and would still offer top performce in it's class... but, I'll still wait for an official word. I have heard many things from the show people that end up being off...

newby

I don't know if I'd always go on the info provided by booth personel though. I had a lady at the car show here tell me that the SRT-4 came stock with 300hp.

I wouldn't be suprised if that's how much the caddy ends up going for, but wait until it's official from GM before getting too upset.

Snorman

$53k, huh? And about 5% of a production estimate of 37,000 cars. Wow…what a deal! If you can find one, maybe the dealer will only gouge out another $3-5k. I think at least those who don’t wear “brand loyalty blinders” knew this was coming. This is the same as the GTO. All the hoopla about how it would be a 350hp, 4-seater for $30k. It’ll turn out to start at $36k, and will probably be $40k+ with a few, well-chosen options. The SS Silverado is $40k (I’ve seen two on local lots, both almost $41k), the SSR (which is a debacle in and of itself) is over $41k, even the new Grand Prix GTP will be $30k+.
For the time being, GM has abandoned “cheap speed”. The best game in town for those who want a fast new car is the ’03 Cobra (which are in abundant supply on dealer lots at or below MSRP )or the SRT-4, IMO.
S.

guionM

Even at $52K, considering what Lincoln LS V8 gives you at $48,000, it's still not bad. With loaded CTSs going for $35,000, in retrospect, it's pretty unrealistic to thnk the CTSv would have been below $40K. $52,000 is kind of steep, but look at how many people are paying $53,000+ for a $25,000 Chevy Tahoe. Put this under the "I'm not surprised" column.

BTW, I don't recall anyone ever saying GTO would sell for $30,000. The estimates have always been in the $32,000-35,000 range. Even in Australia, it sell for the equivalent of $32,000, and the only option on the GTO will be a sunroof.

Being that so many people bought SS's and WS6's for that exact same price, despite near identical cars being available in the $25-28,000 range, and the fact the f-body by modern standards is prehistoric, don't act so indignant about GTO's price.

People were far more willing to pay for the more costly versions of these cars than the cheaper ones, so that's what GM (as well as Chrysler & Ford) will be selling top performing V8 muscle cars at. Either put the blame whare it belongs, or suck it up.

Snorman

I'm sure the CTS-v offers superior performance to the LS, even at a premium, but that range puts it in pretty lofty competition (S4, M3, etc.).
There have been many GM fans all over the internet claiming from the beginning that the GTO would sell for ~$30k. An impromptu comment from a GM exec at some point set into motion the predictions. Never happen. Last I heard, it was $35-36k. I won't even flinch if I look at a sticker on a lot in 8 months and see GTO's with a $38-40k MSRP.
I'm not exactly sure where the $53k Tahoe is, but okay. Possibly, you're lumping the Escalade as a Tahoe based platform.
Purchasing patterns or not...GM is falling out of the affordable performance game. Just because a portion of enthusiasts were willing to pay for the premium version of a model (i.e. SS, WS6, Z06), it shouldn't signal GM that the demographic has radically changed enough that the entry cost should be raised significantly.
S.

centric

I certainly hope it's not $52k. If it's $35k, it's a sucker punch to the Germans. There ain't no 'splainin away the fact that a $35k Caddy will make lunchmeat out of an M3. At $52K, it goes something like this:

You: "Check out my fast new Caddy, only $52k!"

Mouthbreather: "You coulda gotta M3 for that price!"

You: "But mine has 400HP, Brembo brakes, it's faster, yadda yadda . . .

Mouthbreather: "But the M3's a BMW! Superior German engineering! Not cheapo ham-handed American crap! I bet it has PUSHRODS!"

Come on, GM. Pull your head out of your butt. You need to PROVE your cars are better, THEN charge for them.

Z28x

Anyone that thinks the CTSv will be $35K is smoking way too much crack. A CTS with the Luxury Sport Package is about $35K and a Loaded CTS with every posible option they make is about $42K (Navigation system alone is $2700 ) go to carpoint.com and price one with options.

So that means the CTS ranges in price from $30K to about $42K

Now lets assume the V-series package can be added to any CTS at a cost of $10,000.

That would mean the CTSv price range would be between $40K and $52K depending on options. So perhaps we will see the CTSv for $40,000 and maybe this lady at the show was right also and there will be some CTSvs running around fully loaded at $52K.

Z28Wilson

Sorry, I'm not about to lump the '03 Cobra in the category of "cheap" speed.

MunchE

Seems like quite the deal compared to most of what GM is offering these days.

That's disappointing if the CTSv really is that expensive.

There is no reason to buy that car over say, an M3, an S4, or any other European entry into that market.

GM needs to realize that they can't go toe to toe with these cars, because even on the off chance they are as good in fit and finish and quality, they are not perceived that way. What reason does Joe Car Buyer have to get the CTSv over the M3? Absolutely none, and I bet the resale value of the M3 would be an awful lot higher.

I was talking with a friend about it, and the only thing that makes sense is that the CTSv is a Sedan, not a coupe. If you look at the Sedan market it's more in competition with the M5 and the E55, which are around $80k+.

I still don't think it will do all that well, though.

Aeromaks

I dont know, yesterday, at the show, Ireally did like Ford's offerings.

The new 05 GT completely got attention, and the 03 mysticolor cobra, is just screeming to be bought, hopefully when the new GEEETEEEEE comes out, the 03 cobras will be dropped in prices, or the 04 mysticolors, if still avail, We all know how good a new ford product is. But still, comparing an 03 cobra for 35k to a 35k BLAND GTO, or a 52k Caddie, before markups, 03 Cobra really is a cheap thrill that looks pretty good. But even a 35k before markup GTO, with ls1, vs a 35k before markdowns Cobra, with a blown 4.6, i will take hte cobra.

Eh, well, was fun while it lasted, who knows, maybe will get rich and will buy the ctsv

Aeromaks

Now that i think about it, Caddie really is going against Mercedes and the likes, with their tags, a 70k corvette, er, XLR, a 50k CTS,

But the thing is, they have to prove to the general public they are worth it, but the CTS's are selling because of good price, 35k for what they are,

Z28Wilson

I don't necessarily disagree with you, however I still see "cheap" speed as a $25,000 Z28 or Mustang GT or even the upcoming SRT-4 (not my kind of performance but with the right driver these things could be 13 second cars stock.)

See I take the opposite approach. If GM doesn't build cars to compete how can they get their cars to be perceived the way they want them to be in the first place? Yeah it's going to take time to build the reputation for quality, but Toyota's reputation was not built overnight. Lexus, even as overrated as I still feel it to be, is not scoffed at as being the "overpriced Toyota" line that it was viewed as when it debuted. It's always better to butt heads with the competition than be afraid and sit on the sidelines (ahem, CAMARO anyone???)

Excuse the rah-rah rant here, but this is still General freaking Motors, the largest car company on the planet. They have the resources and the knowledge to build a world-class product anywhere they want to. There is NO excuse to give up on any segment, anywhere. GM shouldn't be cowering, they should be saying "yeah we're going to do this, and we're going to find ways to do it better than you at a competitive price!"

Statistics say GM does build some quality cars. It is going to take competitive products in all segments and price ranges to make each class of buyer believe it.