19 as well and a die hard chevy "young" man if you will. Whats to say really. The import fad is here (hopefully not to stay) but I dont see it going anywhere anytime soon. Brainwashing was probably the best description of it. Yes Chevy has made it extremely hard for us, (not that I could afford a new z28/ss camaro if they had one at this time) to buy anything fast related (V8/RWD). However you have to realize like somebody else mentioned it is a buisness. They dont sell, chevy makes no money, chevy loses money building these cars. Unfortunately people dont think these cars are fast for some reason and the import fad like i said is taking over. All we can do is wait. Hopefully chevy will have something 4 us here soon.

 

Im happy with my TA . I dont see it getting any better then that as far as im concerned

 

To further show GM's lack of place in the youth market, I'll use as an example a video game. Take the video game Need For Speed Underground 2....it has a lot of cars that young folks find attractive for whatever reason.

What does the General have in here? A GTO, an Escalade and a Hummer H2. And if you want to compare SUVs, there's a Lincoln in there too.

Ford has the Focus and Mustang, and Mazda has the Miata, RX-7, and RX-8. Honda has the Civic and the IS300. Toyota has a Corolla, a Celica, a Supra. Nissan has a Sentra, a 240SX, a 350Z, a Skyline and a G35. Even Mitsubishi has several cars, Eclipse, Lancer Evolution, 3000GT....

Now, GM, with Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, Buick, Caddy, can only provide one car that it thinks can appeal to the youth market at all? And even that car is one that's priced out of the youth market entirely. Yeah, it's just a video game, but it also shows what kinds of cars young people actually want to own. Several of the cars in the game aren't made anymore, but as referenced in this thread, there aren't any used GM options except the F-body either for the young buyer looking for something sporty.

It's sad, but if GM keeps going how it's going, soon they'll find every GM brand is a Buick, with it's market growing old and dying and no one new to replace it.

Chevy needs to look internally and figure out WHY these cars aren't selling. Obviously people WANT these types cars, and Ford is having no problem selling Focuses. GM's cars aren't selling because they're crappy cars, and that's why they're not making any money on them. The F-Body was a notable exception and every day it looks less and less likely that it's coming back the way it was before. I'd be willing to bet we'll never see a ~20k Camaro again.

Edit: One thing to add, GM isn't losing market share because of any sort of "import fad." Why would any person buy a Cavalier over....well, anything? Why would anyone buy Malibu over Camry, Accord, or Mazda 6? GM has pushed itself into the position that imports were in 20 years ago. People think they're unreliable pieces of crap because that's their experience with GM cars. GM needs to do what imports did, which is build a better car than their competitors at a better price point, and earn back respect over time, like the Japanese brands did. GM hasn't stepped up to the plate to build a better car yet, and yet they still think their prices should be up there with everyone else. When they finally realize that they need to build something better and cheaper, then GM will get back to where it used to be. Until then, say hello to GM, soon to be #2 in the world, and not looking like it's gaining anytime soon.

 

GM never lost money on the Camaro. They made money on them right up to 02. Especially when people forgot about the base cars to get V8 SS's and Z28's instead. This was a car that was built off of a chassis from 22 years ago and was designed in the early 90s. It was the number 2 best selling coupe in the market. Also, they sold whatever they did with almost NO advertising at ALL, and in the LS1 years there was actually none for the Camaro, purposely. The Camaro name alone sells cars, back that name up with a winning combination, treat the car like it really matters, market it to many demographics, and it will be a success.

 

1. Studded tires rip up the surface your garage floor and ruin braking/handling on those dry pavement winter days.

2. Since you have to buy a full set of 4 snow treads these days (...on all FWD, or AWD, or even Stability-control equipped RWD cars) it just seems like too much of pain in terms of money and effort. Non-studded snow treads still negatively effect dry handling, especially when they're on all 4 wheels.

It was different when you could just put snow tires on the rear wheels of your big, traditional American RWD car. Today, you're just better off buying a 4WD SUV if you live in the snowbelt.


1. I'd rather see 10-20% of the cost of an AWD system spent on a Stability control setup. Most AWD cars lack the neccessary ground clearance to be of any real use in a blizzard. Besides, getting stuck is of little concern compared to spinning out on an ice covered interstate.

 

Could be honestly I don't know. However my question to you then sir is why did they stop making them?

 

You sir need to search the topic has been covered MANY times here and I would say that 99% of us know exactly why the cars aren't around. Seek and you shall find.

 

It's all about....AFTERMARKET!

If you want to make a current new car cool, make sure the brand's cars over the past few years has strong aftermarket support.

Without even mentioning imports, both Ford and Chrysler have street rep. Mustang has had massive aftermarket support, in addition to having a truly special & different Mustang Cobra (unlike our Camaro SS), a truly intresting truck (Lightning), and other SVT cars. Chrysler not only has been selling a turbocharged Neon for 3 seasons, Chrysler offers very effective upgrades for the young buyer who just purchased a earlier SRT-4 (or if he's not worrying about voiding the warranty, a new one).

What does Chevrolet have over the past couple of years that's going to turn on the young buyer? Impala SSs are going on 7+ years old and 4th gen Camaros wern't even known when they were in production, let alone now.

 

91z28 said it, but I'll give you a hint.....

Morons, confusion, mismanagement, and a contract.

 

Youve hit the nail on the head (as usual). Now matter how much GM wants to think so, corvette does not satisfy even half of the performance enthusiasts out there. I cant figure out why GM doesnt have a v8 minitruck yet. If that would have been availible in 02 I GAURANTEE I would have one right now instead of the camaro. The minitruck market alone is enough to multiply chevy's street rep. build the friggen colorado SS for crying out loud!

That is soooo true.

 

The 4th gen Camaro , and more so the trans am is quite popular with the younger people around here . There are late model 4th gens EVERYWHERE on cruz nights . Also the LT1 , LSx and 4th gen aftermarket is huge already and their are still lots of new development for these cars , even the LT1's . I think the 4th gen f-bodies in used market anyways are becoming more popular each year . Those later LS1 cars getting cheaper and more attainable for younger people to buy . Of course this does nothing for the current chevy . But the 4th gen , from a perspective of some who actively participates in several racing avenues , hot rod power tour ect. , seems to still be a VERY popular car to own .

Chevy is wisely getting the word out early on the cobalt and the hp possiblities with the ecotec thru motorsports participation . Both the bonneville car and the drag car are 2 pretty impressive cars . I really think chevy has done all the right things for once to appeal to sport compact crowd with the Cobalt . I think it outsell the current SRT4 by a large margin .....but , they better get their cards in a row and have something ready for the new neon replacement . I would certainly hope by that time or sooner the cobalt is turbocharged

 

There is definetly some truth to this. Several years ago I read a magazine quote from a GM executive (don't remember who) from the SEMA show. He was asked why there wasn't more factory support for performance enhancments for GM's economy vehicles (i.e. Cavalier & sunfire). His response was something along the line that "we don't make any money on those vehicles, trucks and suv are where the money is" I could not believe how moronic and shortsighted this statement was.

The low cost performance market is not about profit/ vehicle it is about building a future customer base. If you ignore this market, young people will go elsewhere. They will establish buying preferences with other companies while, at the same time lock into negative preconsieved notions about GM. When these young people grow up and have families, they will start looking to buy sedans, suvs, mini-vans or what ever. In more cases than not, they will start their search with the companies they have good experience with and with those that have meet their needs in the past. GM will be at the end of the list, if they even make the list at all. GM does seem to be responding to this as of late. However, they are about 10 years behind the curve.

On another note, I am amazed at how many of these young people suffer from dillusions of The Fast and the Furious. There really does seem to be a lot of them that truely believe that stickers, giant wings, and a fart pipes make their cars fast. I have yet to come across one that could take my wife's GTP, let alone my Camaro!

 

I would argue that most kids are turned off by the fast and the furious. If anything, The F&F series put an end to the useless vinyl, wings, and clear tails fad. The ones that still do this catch a ton of crap for it.

As far as aftermarket, that definatly helps, but you still need a good platform to start with. There is a huge aftermarket for the J-bodies, but they still get no cred. The SRT-4 made such a splash because that motor is a real piece of work.

GM just needs to put out a car that does atleast one thing extremly well. Like the SRT has power, even though the chassis sucks. Or the SVT focus and Mazdas that are known for great chassis even though they are low on power. Car enthusiasts aren't stupid and aren't interested in point A to B vanilla cars that suck at everything (cavalier, sunfire, G6, ......)

*Turbo 250+hp Soltice*Turbo 250+hp Soltice*Turbo 250+hp Soltice*

 

Let's put things in perspective for a second....

1. The next Mustang Cobra isn't here yet, and while Ford has a better base to work with in the new Mustang, any new Cobra will still be cobbled together with a borrowed IRS.

2. Isn't the Lightning currently on ice? Short of aftermarket from Roush (or a Ram SRT-10) there isn't much happening as far a Lightning replacement.

3. If the 300C shows where Daimler-Chrysler is going, the Neon SRT-4 is pretty much a sign of where they've been. The Neon is going away soon and the SRT-4's engine is going with it. It will be interesting to see what the new Mitsubishi designed chassis and Hyundai designed engine add up to.

 

Maybe this has or has not been mentioned, but if GM really wants to grab the youth/enthusiast market, they can start by offering a manual tranny on every sinlge last one of their cars. And make the manual avaible with any engine combo. If GM would have designed all their cars/engines to work with both manuals and auto tranny's from the beginning, the cost would be negigilbe. BMW and VW offer a manual tranny with everything they build, and have a great repuation for building sporty cars. Imagine that