Chevrolet Volt will have liquid cooled batteries.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Chevrolet Volt will have liquid cooled batteries.
From Edmunds.com:
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm actually getting pretty intrested (and enthusiastic) about an electric hybrid car. 
Someone check the tempreature of h*ll, because it must have gotten considerably cooler.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/GreenCarAdvisor/18
GM's Secret for Safe Lithium-ion Batteries: Cool It!
General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz raised eyebrows in battery development circles when he said recently that GM was “100 percent confident” that it has whipped the overheating problem that is hampering development of lithium-ion battery packs for electric and hybrid cars.
Now the General’s secret can be told.
Tony Posawatz, vehicle line director for GM's E-Flex electric vehicle platform, told Green Car Advisor during an interview in Detroit that instead of mounting a frontal attack on battery design for the Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric car that is under development, engineers circled around and attacked from the flank.
“We’re going to use liquid cooling,” he whispered.
Running coolant lines through the big array of lithium-ion battery cells that will store energy to propel the Volt and other models built on the E-Flex platform adds cost and isn’t as elegant as developing a battery that won’t overheat, Posawatz admitted. But it is enabling the automaker to keep on its self-appointed schedule: Volts in the market by 2010.
Failure isn’t an option, he said. GM was recently savaged in the popular documentary, Who Killed the Electric Car?, for its decision to pull the plug on its first modern electric vehicle, the EV1.
With the Volt, a car Lutz has said will be sold for under $30,000, GM has laid its reputation on the line. Asked if the project could wind up on the cutting room floor, Posawatz shook his head.
“We’d never live it down,” he said.
General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz raised eyebrows in battery development circles when he said recently that GM was “100 percent confident” that it has whipped the overheating problem that is hampering development of lithium-ion battery packs for electric and hybrid cars.
Now the General’s secret can be told.
Tony Posawatz, vehicle line director for GM's E-Flex electric vehicle platform, told Green Car Advisor during an interview in Detroit that instead of mounting a frontal attack on battery design for the Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric car that is under development, engineers circled around and attacked from the flank.
“We’re going to use liquid cooling,” he whispered.
Running coolant lines through the big array of lithium-ion battery cells that will store energy to propel the Volt and other models built on the E-Flex platform adds cost and isn’t as elegant as developing a battery that won’t overheat, Posawatz admitted. But it is enabling the automaker to keep on its self-appointed schedule: Volts in the market by 2010.
Failure isn’t an option, he said. GM was recently savaged in the popular documentary, Who Killed the Electric Car?, for its decision to pull the plug on its first modern electric vehicle, the EV1.
With the Volt, a car Lutz has said will be sold for under $30,000, GM has laid its reputation on the line. Asked if the project could wind up on the cutting room floor, Posawatz shook his head.
“We’d never live it down,” he said.
Someone check the tempreature of h*ll, because it must have gotten considerably cooler.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/GreenCarAdvisor/18
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,072
From: Lilburn, GA, USA
It seems to be all comming together.
Does anyone else think that it is strange and maybe not that smart to have constant updates and "secrets" revealed in the media about this special vehicle?
Does anyone else think that it is strange and maybe not that smart to have constant updates and "secrets" revealed in the media about this special vehicle?
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 664
From: Hanford, CA, USA
Well they have such a huge ad campaign for the Volt they have to maintain interest in it anyway they can.
And it seems every story I have been reading lately about the facelifted Prius has somehow tossed in how GM is using Lithium rather than the Nickel batteries. 2 years is not a long time, but who knows what the marketplace will be like.
And it seems every story I have been reading lately about the facelifted Prius has somehow tossed in how GM is using Lithium rather than the Nickel batteries. 2 years is not a long time, but who knows what the marketplace will be like.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,320
From: Memphis
Why not Lithium Polymer instead of Lithium Ion? I know at least with laptop batteries they offer the same charge capacity with about half the weight and supposedly far fewer heating issues. But maybe that's just with laptops and they aren't scalable to large scale apps like a car - or maybe they're just too expensive?
Also - why 'only' a 40 mile range for a car that won't be out for 2.5-3 more years? The Tesla Roadster (which is out now) is a sports car has a 200 mile range. Albeit no gasoline motor, so 200 miles is all you get. But I do believe people would prefer a 200 mile all electric range and the simplicity of only having one drive train power source, rather than two. Just don't take it on road trips?
www.teslamotors.com
Granted, yeah it costs 98 grand, but I figure that has more to do with it being an exclusive low volume sports car than anything else, right?
Lastly... how long does GM expect the batteries in this to last and how much will they cost to replace? I know I've heard quotes anywhere from 3500 to 7000 to replace the batteries in current day hybrid vehicles, and around 150k to 200k miles seems to be the typical mark. Adding this as an expected expense along with the gasoline motor and transmission means you might want to just throw this car away by the time it needs battery replacement. Or at least that's what it sounds like with some of these other hybrid vehicles...
Also - why 'only' a 40 mile range for a car that won't be out for 2.5-3 more years? The Tesla Roadster (which is out now) is a sports car has a 200 mile range. Albeit no gasoline motor, so 200 miles is all you get. But I do believe people would prefer a 200 mile all electric range and the simplicity of only having one drive train power source, rather than two. Just don't take it on road trips?
www.teslamotors.com
Granted, yeah it costs 98 grand, but I figure that has more to do with it being an exclusive low volume sports car than anything else, right?
Lastly... how long does GM expect the batteries in this to last and how much will they cost to replace? I know I've heard quotes anywhere from 3500 to 7000 to replace the batteries in current day hybrid vehicles, and around 150k to 200k miles seems to be the typical mark. Adding this as an expected expense along with the gasoline motor and transmission means you might want to just throw this car away by the time it needs battery replacement. Or at least that's what it sounds like with some of these other hybrid vehicles...
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 439
From: Northern VA
Why not Lithium Polymer instead of Lithium Ion? I know at least with laptop batteries they offer the same charge capacity with about half the weight and supposedly far fewer heating issues. But maybe that's just with laptops and they aren't scalable to large scale apps like a car - or maybe they're just too expensive?
Also - why 'only' a 40 mile range for a car that won't be out for 2.5-3 more years? The Tesla Roadster (which is out now) is a sports car has a 200 mile range. Albeit no gasoline motor, so 200 miles is all you get. But I do believe people would prefer a 200 mile all electric range and the simplicity of only having one drive train power source, rather than two. Just don't take it on road trips?
www.teslamotors.com
Granted, yeah it costs 98 grand, but I figure that has more to do with it being an exclusive low volume sports car than anything else, right?
Lastly... how long does GM expect the batteries in this to last and how much will they cost to replace? I know I've heard quotes anywhere from 3500 to 7000 to replace the batteries in current day hybrid vehicles, and around 150k to 200k miles seems to be the typical mark. Adding this as an expected expense along with the gasoline motor and transmission means you might want to just throw this car away by the time it needs battery replacement. Or at least that's what it sounds like with some of these other hybrid vehicles...
Also - why 'only' a 40 mile range for a car that won't be out for 2.5-3 more years? The Tesla Roadster (which is out now) is a sports car has a 200 mile range. Albeit no gasoline motor, so 200 miles is all you get. But I do believe people would prefer a 200 mile all electric range and the simplicity of only having one drive train power source, rather than two. Just don't take it on road trips?
www.teslamotors.com
Granted, yeah it costs 98 grand, but I figure that has more to do with it being an exclusive low volume sports car than anything else, right?
Lastly... how long does GM expect the batteries in this to last and how much will they cost to replace? I know I've heard quotes anywhere from 3500 to 7000 to replace the batteries in current day hybrid vehicles, and around 150k to 200k miles seems to be the typical mark. Adding this as an expected expense along with the gasoline motor and transmission means you might want to just throw this car away by the time it needs battery replacement. Or at least that's what it sounds like with some of these other hybrid vehicles...
And, there was an article in a recent Popular Science on the Tesla car, and the battery alone was $31,000, IIRC. "Just don't take it on road trips" is a restriction that lots of the market wouldn't tolerate. And, first delivery for July 2008 is not "out now."
Battery life and replacement cost- who knows, I suppose. Toyota says they've cut replacement costs for Prius batteries 40% since introduction, though I've never seen the starting number. An acquaintance of mine recently retired from a Toyota dealership, where he was a master mechanic, and he said they hadn't replaced a single battery yet. First-gen Prius has been around since 2000. A friend at work has a 2002 Prius, and he says no issues with the car yet. My neighbor across the street has a 2003 Civic hybrid, and she has no issues, either.
EDIT- I'm excited about the Volt. Hopefully, the looks won't get neutered much. Obviously, the ginormous wheels have to go to help economy, but I was excited to see it at the auto show.
Last edited by Todd80Z28; Sep 16, 2007 at 03:01 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,320
From: Memphis
July 2008 is the current delivery date expected for orders that are placed now.
Production is already going on now, as I understand it - the press has already driven several test cars, and the first roadsters should be in the hands of the public before the end of the year. I'd say that's close enough to 'out now'... at least in the sense that the design is finalized, which is to say that the finalized design is set for 200 miles range, which is impressive.
I could definitely live with a 200 mile range with no gas motor if I was given the choice between that and a 40 mile range with a gas motor, assuming all other factors were equal (price, performance, maintenance costs, etc). But maybe that's just me.
Production is already going on now, as I understand it - the press has already driven several test cars, and the first roadsters should be in the hands of the public before the end of the year. I'd say that's close enough to 'out now'... at least in the sense that the design is finalized, which is to say that the finalized design is set for 200 miles range, which is impressive.
I could definitely live with a 200 mile range with no gas motor if I was given the choice between that and a 40 mile range with a gas motor, assuming all other factors were equal (price, performance, maintenance costs, etc). But maybe that's just me.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 439
From: Northern VA
assuming all other factors were equal (price, performance, maintenance costs, etc).
I think the direction they are going with Volt is good. They might consider a CNG-fueled option for the Cali market, though, so they can play the green card to the max.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,712
From: Ontario
Also - why 'only' a 40 mile range for a car that won't be out for 2.5-3 more years? The Tesla Roadster (which is out now) is a sports car has a 200 mile range. Albeit no gasoline motor, so 200 miles is all you get. But I do believe people would prefer a 200 mile all electric range and the simplicity of only having one drive train power source, rather than two. Just don't take it on road trips?
www.teslamotors.com
www.teslamotors.com
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 940
From: Southern Indiana
Why not Lithium Polymer instead of Lithium Ion? I know at least with laptop batteries they offer the same charge capacity with about half the weight and supposedly far fewer heating issues. But maybe that's just with laptops and they aren't scalable to large scale apps like a car - or maybe they're just too expensive?
Also - why 'only' a 40 mile range for a car that won't be out for 2.5-3 more years? The Tesla Roadster (which is out now) is a sports car has a 200 mile range. Albeit no gasoline motor, so 200 miles is all you get. But I do believe people would prefer a 200 mile all electric range and the simplicity of only having one drive train power source, rather than two. Just don't take it on road trips?
www.teslamotors.com
Granted, yeah it costs 98 grand, but I figure that has more to do with it being an exclusive low volume sports car than anything else, right?
Lastly... how long does GM expect the batteries in this to last and how much will they cost to replace? I know I've heard quotes anywhere from 3500 to 7000 to replace the batteries in current day hybrid vehicles, and around 150k to 200k miles seems to be the typical mark. Adding this as an expected expense along with the gasoline motor and transmission means you might want to just throw this car away by the time it needs battery replacement. Or at least that's what it sounds like with some of these other hybrid vehicles...
Also - why 'only' a 40 mile range for a car that won't be out for 2.5-3 more years? The Tesla Roadster (which is out now) is a sports car has a 200 mile range. Albeit no gasoline motor, so 200 miles is all you get. But I do believe people would prefer a 200 mile all electric range and the simplicity of only having one drive train power source, rather than two. Just don't take it on road trips?
www.teslamotors.com
Granted, yeah it costs 98 grand, but I figure that has more to do with it being an exclusive low volume sports car than anything else, right?
Lastly... how long does GM expect the batteries in this to last and how much will they cost to replace? I know I've heard quotes anywhere from 3500 to 7000 to replace the batteries in current day hybrid vehicles, and around 150k to 200k miles seems to be the typical mark. Adding this as an expected expense along with the gasoline motor and transmission means you might want to just throw this car away by the time it needs battery replacement. Or at least that's what it sounds like with some of these other hybrid vehicles...
Assuming performance drops off after a certain charge point, that's likely where the engine will kick in and recharge it up till it hits another charge point. Thus it's zero gas needed until it hit that charge point.