guionM

Had my B4C in at the dealer here in San Francisco, which happens to be a "GM" dealer instead of simply a Chevy dealer.

While I was waiting to get my car back, I went downstairs to the showroom (old style multifloor city dealer) and checked out a number of vehicles they had. This was my 1st time inside a Saab in memory (perhaps the early 90s?), and what blows me away is how much better the far cheaper Malibu's interior is. Even the Cobalt's interior is better than Saab's Delta car.

The dash looks 70 eras Euro cheap. next to the Malibu, the 9-5's interior doesn't even look from the same era, let alone the same company. God forbit if you touch anything. Malibu feels like a Cadillac next to the 9-5.

Things are worse with the 9-3. Forget about the Malibu. The Cobalt's interior is better designed than the 9-3. Textures are richer, surfaces feel more solid, switchgear feels more smooth. 9-3's feels (again) 70s era cheap.

On the exterior, design is subjective. I like the front end on the Saabs better than Cobalt's. But in the same showroom, the Chevrolet Malibu looks more luxurious, has a superior interior, feels built more solidly, and costs well over 8 grand cheaper to boot.

With the Saab 9-3 barely outselling the Chevrolet Corvette and the 9-5 sold a scant 188 cars last month, and the 316 9Xs sold last month were nothing more than barely disguised Trailblazers.

Forget Pontiac... it's still GM's 2nd best selling division. What I'd like is if someone could please explain to me why Saab still even exists and is marketed here in the US?

stangitr

they need to go back to being weird

91_z28_4me

Guy the 9-3 is an epsilon car, not delta as you indicated. I don't think anyone will disagree that the 9-5 should have been redesigned at least 5 years ago. Personally I think the 9-3s interior looks good in pictures and in person, while I can't comment on the materials or feel (it has been over a year since I sat in one) I can comment that the 04 Cobalt's interior looks quite cheap in comparison.

Chuck!

The Saab interior is not going to blow anyone away, but it's not as bad as you're making it out to be. The seats on the Saab are almost worth it alone.

GM has no idea what to do with Saab from a marketing perspective. They really need to sell it to someone who can devote more attention to it.

Big Als Z

Where you in a used model? And I heard that the dealer you went to is going out of business, which leaves no GM dealer inside the city. And from what I hear, its a crummy dealer that has not kept up with the look of the place.
Like someone said, the 9-3 sits on Saab's Epsilon platform. And its interior is much better then what you are talking about.

formula79

A Saab is named after what you do when you look at one...that is Sob. I think the Swedish government has some kind of interest in Saab..making closing it down very hard. I think their business model also relies on them being sold here.

Really Saabs should be rebadged Pontiac's witha little funk added to it.

gtjeff

Bob Lutz called Saab GM's "crown jewel" on his fastlane blog. Obviously, its really Cadillac! No wonder GM's market share has gone down with him calling the shots.

Saab here is a total waste of time and resources, take it from someone who knows the brand well. Parts are slow in arriving for older models unlike other GM makes. The 9/7X is done in December with the closing of the Trailblazer plant, leaving Saab with only two models.

People who buy the cars are very specific in color choices and options with no flexibility, the car they want may only exist halfway across the country at one of their huge network of 260 dealers. Some of the convertibles have window stickers almost as high as the vette sold in the same showroom. For that kind of money, the Corvette is a no brainer for a few grand more.

GM has never made a profit on Saab in the eight years they have owned 100% of it. Time to cut your losses, GM. Alot of your dealers could then focus capital wasted on carrying Saab into increasing Cadillac sales. GM needs to focus resources on neglected core VOLUME brands like Buick and Pontiac, instead of sinkholes like Saab.

Dan Daly

Define "older models." I don't think anything prior to the 2003 9-3 (built on the Epsilon) had much of GM's input on design. So it's not like you could go to a 99 Saab and found that it shared some of its parts with a 99 Lumina or something.

However, I agree with most of what you're saying. GM doesn't seem to know what to do with them or where they fit in their lineup. The 9-2x was a disaster and so is the 9-7, and I'm pretty sure that them being nothing but rebadges has a lot to do with it. The 9-3s are good cars, but overpriced when options are put on them. The 9-5 was do for a remodel 5 years ago. Why it's taken them this long is beyond logic. I think if they would make the Saab brand more of a direct competition to the VW or Mini brand, that they would do better.

It's hard to compare something like a Malibu to a Passat, but equally difficult to compare a Cobalt to a Passat as well; if that makes any sense. If GM wants Saab to slide into this slot, they're going to need to bring the price point down below that of Cadillac, which is obviously a superior vehicle.

gtjeff

I should have said those cars a few years old, out of manufacturer waranty. Occasionally the parts have to come from Sweden, which may mean a broken down car will be tied up for quite a while.

96_Camaro_B4C

I skimmed the original post. When you tried to compare the 9-3's interior to the Cobalt's, you completely lost me.

That is just absurd. Even the new Malibu vs. the Saab...

Haven't been in a 9-5 in a while (and they are quite long in the tooth, no question), but both the 9-3 and 9-5 are quite Saab-ish in my book. Quite unique, and rather nice.

My boss and I have a brand new Malibu LT 4 cylinder for our rental car right now. The interior is definitely nice. I'd have to check out a 9-3 again for a fair back to back. But the last time I was in one, it struck me as nicer. The Cobalt, which is not too bad in my book for an econocar, isn't even in the same realm as the 9-3...



EDIT: Oh, and Saab has no delta car. The 9-3 sits on Epsilon, and I think the 9-5 is left over from the old Saab / Opel Vectra days. It's a "real Saab," not a shared standard GMNA platform. The smallest Saab, the discontinued 9-2, was a rebadged / restyled Subaru Impreza, also not a delta car.

turbo200

the 9-3's interior is of better quality than cobalt, and even malibu, imo, and i've sat in many over the years, post freshening with the intro of the parts bin radio and pre-refresh. 9-3 blows the cobalt away in looks, inside and out. saab has a great design language. in fact the best argument for keeping them is thier consistency and the fact that for product investment, Saab has been far from the crown jewel. that title goes to chevrolet, the real crown jewel in the GM line. why do imports favor soft changes and refinements over time over dramatic changes, out of character design? evolution and consistency, and timelessness all equate taste, expense, and endurance. saab has this in spades. they are immediately recognizable. and if for no other reason, they should be kept for thier talent. what they have demonstrated over the years in concept format has been tremendous. they need to be given free rein to show that. if anyone should go, saturn should, the volume hasn't increased, pontiac has a bigger history, and could use the product infusion. buick is also low on volume, should become more purposeful and limited, with great convertibles in the future. i can't think of another brand besides hummer and saturn GM should dump.

the bigger 9-5 model needs to be deeply discounted to have any relevance, but it's a good looking rare and somewhat sporty car with an appealing image.

i get the exact opposite out of the saabs versus what Guy said. they feel solidly built to me, with the sportcombi scoring very high in that regard the last time i sat in one, along with the convertible. i think they have a great high end and distinct interior appeal. the quality of materials used is not top notch of every carmaker out there, but vies for being the best from GM.

guionM

The large, flat, shiny plastic front on the driver's side of the dash looks cheap next to the Cobalt's more modern look. I've also seen pictures of Saabs interiors, and really didn't think anything of them. Perhaps it's the price of the Saab versus waht I'd expect from the interior.

If the 9-3 is an Espilon, then either the Malibu is an even more impressive ride, or the Saab is even less impressive next to the Chevy.

I agree with you, Chuck, on the 9-5 seats. They were actualy very, very good. The key Saab uses (if that's what you can call it) is also pretty cool on the plus side.

The dealer I went to is going to be closing up on December 12 (though they advertize the 15th). This is my 1st time at this dealer. My local garage seems incapable of installing a set of "O" sensors and I didn't feel like going out past Daly City so I gave these guys a chance. Verdict will be in tomorrow (because they are closing, they now have to get parts from other dealers)... You're pretty up on this for someone from the East Coast.

The lower cost Saab model I sat in had a discounted prices of 30 grand. The Malibu model was going for something like 22. Maybe the Saab's interior isn't as bad as I say if you walk in off the street after driving my '02 Camaro and sit in one. But after sitting in and checking out the interior of a Malibu for awhile, then going straight to both Saabs, knowing the price difference before getting inside, the interior looks and feels terrible....... except for the 9-5's front seats.

guionM

Got it.
To me Saab & Volvo are vehicles I quite honestly don't follow as closely as I do US or even most other Euro brands.

Never too old (or too smart) to learn somthing new.


I have to take my car back later today to install sensors (I wasn't going to leave my car there overnight when I live only about 2 miles away). I'll stop back in the showroom to compare them again.

flowmotion

The 9-3 interior was recently "GMified" with the corporate radio and climate control units. I prefer the old-style euro design with a zillion buttons.




According to the rumors, the next 9-3 will be more in the classic Saab 99/900 spirit -- it will be on the delta compact platform and come in 3/5 door hatchback models! As an oldschool Saab fan, this makes me very happy - the Epsilon 9-3s are too big and boring.

IIRC the 9-5 will move to extended Episilon (which can't happen too soon), and there's a small CUV coming which will be shared with the Cadillac SRX.

91_z28_4me

It seems as though pretty much everyone thinks SAAB and GM need to part ways and that sounds good to me. Since the Swedish government is considering loans to GM for SAAB and to Ford for Volvo perhaps something new needs to happen. What if the Swedish government bought SAAB and Volvo both and unified their car brands? The two share pretty rich histories and sell well in Europe. If GM handed over the main plant (Trollholland or smething like that) and made agreements to sell engines/parts and Ford did likewise then both companies could likely survive on their own. It would get rid of one of GM's troubled brands and free up some cash for them.

This seems like a win-win to me. Ford selling Volvo may be a harder sell but it seems as though Ford is looking to do just that anyways so why not bring the company back to the Sweeds?