Yep, I guess that speaks for itself. DCX does still make a profit at that price, albeit much less than a savings account.

 

No, they are not. I know plenty of guys back when I was in high school that either wanted or had a v8 car. It hasn't been that long since I have been in high school. I still know plenty of younger people that drive v8 muscle.

Seems like The Fast and the Furious did more than brainwash a few kids. It gave older generations misconceptions and generalizations. If someone could make a really, really cheap v8 car I have no doubt it would sell.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I'd probably buy one just on general principal. And if it had the utility of...say...a BOF Nomad (the 1999 concept), it would sure be hard to ignore.

 

Did those guys you were with in high school all buy new cars?

BTW - Nice job of creatively quoting me. I also said:

My son drives a V8 Tahoe LT that's been slammed and modified. Before that we built a 67 Camaro together. Before that he drove a supercharged 96 Mustang GT. (He turns 20 in a few weeks.) However, protest all you like, but young guys like you and my son are in the minority. It simply isn't profitable to build a Cobalt priced no frills V8 sports coupe, when most people that buy in that price range would rather get more bang for their buck. (We're talking options not cubic inches here.) The HHR is in the same price range and is a hit because of its styling, not because of its performance. Furthermore, the minority that are into V8 muscle in that price range are more likely to buy used and get more than they would with a new stripped down V8 sports coupe.

I still say it makes far more sense to build a SS version of the Aveo for around $15K than anything else.

 

I agree with this. Its just that kids can't afford most V8 cars anymore. My first car was a 77 Cutlass Supreme 350 Rocket. My second car was a '85 LG5 Camaro V8 with a whopping 155 hp.

Sure neither was a performance car in the true sense but V8s give a "muscle" feel even if they aren't very powerful. 20 years ago V8 cars were common. Now they are exceedingly rare.

If cheap V8s were made available again I think a whole new generation of kids would gladly give up Ricerdom for V8 land. Most ricers secretly want a V8 muscle car, they just can't afford them.

 

It's because back in the day the only way to get close to 200HP was with a "big" V8. Since you can make that power with practically any motor now, the buyers don't care about the number of cylinders as much. V8s do sound better, but that takes a backseat to practically everything else for most buyers.

 

That's a lot clearer than what I said, but basically the same principle.

 

I spend a lot of time hanging out on college campuses, and go to parties and bars every so often. I talk to a lot my peers, strangers and friends alike. Chris is very accurate in his previous post. Young people don't buy v8s, because there are no v8s to buy. A lot of young people want new cars, and very few cheap new cars on the market offer a v6, let alone a v8. There are still no shortage of guys who want and appreciate v8 power. I still hear v8s roar done the street easily as often as I hear Integras/Civics/Eclipses go down the street in West Chester, right by the college campus, on a Thursday/Friday/Saturday night. I just can't agree with your summary, and I believe I have more than enough experience talking with the "younger generation" to warrant my claim.

 

How much was gas back then? Seriously. My first car (circa 1984) was a 1967 Chevelle with a small cheap 283 cid V8. I can remember driving across town to buy gas because there was an Arco station selling it for 99¢ a gallon. I couldn't afford a new car then because insurance was so expensive. I remember paying $2200 a year for insurance on a car that cost me only $600. Sure it wasn't my dream car, a 67-8 Camaro, but it had a V8 and sounded cool once I put a manifold back true dual exhaust on it. (I made no other mods other than a hood scoop and new stereo.) But that was then and this is now. Gas is now $3.35 a gallon at that same Arco station, and kids today can buy a cheap Honda, slap on a fart-cannon exhaust and turbo and get the same performance feeling.

You guys are kidding yourselves about this theory that most kids would give up their imports for a V8 if they could afford them. Why would they? Turn on Nopi Tunervision and watch some sport compact/import drag racing. These guys are putting big money into cheap imports and putting up numbers we never saw back in the day with a RWD American V8. Look at the music and all the hot young girls hanging all over these kids. There ain't one damn V8 in the crowd. Are you seriously saying these kids would give that all up for a cheap V8 musclecar? Wake-up!

 

You hear V8s because you yourself are a V8 fan and that is what you are drawn to. Your friends you hang out with will tend to like the same things, that's why you hang with them. Hey I have been hanging around college campuses for the past 6 years while visiting with my sons and watching them play basketball. I see the cars kids are driving. Our house was the party house in high school where all the kids come to hang out. When my sons were/are home during break, it still is. Maybe demographics and economic environment come into play, but the V8 musclecars were few and far between. Its not like these kids couldn't afford them, because mommy and daddy were buying them beemers, Lexuses (or would that be Lexi?), Hondas, etc. I only know of one or two of my son's friends that also drive or drove V8 American musclecars, the others were more concerned with stereos, big wheels and neon. Face it, you're in the minority. I think that's cool and love the fact that some of today's youth still love V8 American muscle, but the fact is your demographic are not going to be going out and buying many new sub $22k V8 musclecars, even if they were available. If they would, the manufacturers would build them in a heartbeat. But the kids don't, and the manufacturer's aren't and probably won't.

 

I am a fan of way more than just v8s. I still hear every import and bike that goes by. I don't have an ear for only v8s, and I don't have a GM only attitude. My next car may not even be a domestic. Still waiting to see how this new Camaro turns out.

Uh, thats why I said strangers too.

That doesn't just go for imports. The majority of young guys prefer this over performance in any of their cars, no matter the flavor.


Um, no. I am not saying domestic loving guys are the majority, far from it, but I wouldn't say they are some dying breed either. Sorry your son only has two friends that have v8 cars.


What demographic is there for a sub $22k v8 musclecar?? Last I checked, that type of vehicle doesn't exist. The manufacturers don't build them because I can't even begin to imagine how it would be feesible to build a decent, brand new, sub $22k v8 car.

 

All good questions....probably worthy of it's own thread.

For starters, I guess it needs to be both cheap and cool. I really think the Bel Air had a pretty good crack at production...if it only wasn't so....well...dorky looking. It had the "cheap" part down though. Depending on who was doing the talking, the convertible, turbocharged, Bel Air would have sold for from $20K to $25K. Quite the value if you ask me. If we are to believe that, (and why wouldn't we), is it safe to say that a V8, hardtop Bel Air, could be sold for low 20's? Plausible.

So for that $22K.....if you could get a cool looking car, with a V8's burble, and chassis dynamics on par with a ZQ8....would anyone be interested? Would it gain conquest sales? I guess we may never know.

 

What's the difference between this hypothetical convertible Bel Air and the SSR, other than about $15K in list price? Wasn't part of the problem with the Bel Air that when they actually figured out how much it would cost at a projected volume that the lines no longer intersected at $20 to $25K?

 

Well, that $15K difference (maybe even more like $20K or $25K), would be sort of a big deal, don't you think? I also think a car with a back seat could find more mainstream buyers than a $40-$50K boutique-y truck.


And I'm not really sure that the Bel Air's issues were cost related. In fact, cost wise, I think the case was pretty firm. It's issues came from near universal rejection of it's looks. Let's face it...it was frumpy. GM sure didn't get 300 emails per day (like the Camaro does)....saying "build the Bel Air".

Even after some members of the press drove it....no one had very much good to say about that big, bad, turbo, I5, (remember, there were no plans for a GMT355 V8 back then). One person told me after driving it, that it made strange noises...kind of like an old Vega, and that it didn't feel especially powerful.

At any rate, the Bel Air was a neat idea for a low cost RWD....which was unfortunately failed by it's poor execution. Too bad they couldn't combine the coolness of the SSR or Nomad ('99 or '04), with the very low cost of the Bel Air. I'd love to see GM take another crack at it. Maybe they could resurrect the 1999 Nomad's bodywork for it.

 

Yes, the $15k difference is huge, and that was at the heart of my question. Why was it so expensive? There isn't that big a difference between the SSR and a Bel Air from a cost standpoint. It makes me think that a Bel Air at $20-25K may not be realistic.