Yeah the fit isn't a new class of car - it's just the manufacturers enhance hype and sales as well as keep pushing loyal buyers upscale a bit at a time if they make the same models bigger, better, more powerful, and more expensive every generation.

They've just done it so much that they all seemed to have left a gap at the bottom of the scale.

 

Yep. I love how the media keeps calling them "B" cars or "microcars" like it is some cool new trend straight from Japan...

When we start getting the true microcars, like the Smart and some of those other 600cc-1000cc tiny things that are popular in Japan, THAT would be something more or less new to this market, at least in the modern era.

I actually looked up some numbers, and I didn't even have to go back to the '80s Accord. The new Civic Si is arguably as big as the '94 Accord (except in overall length).

1994 Accord:

WB = 106.9
L = 184.0
W = 70.1
H = 54.7
Wgt = 2877 (LX Sedan, 3009 for EX)
Trk = 59.6 F / 59.1 R

2007 Civic Sedan
WB = 106.3
L = 176.7
W = 69.0
H = 56.5
Wgt = 2738 (EX manual), 2807 (EX Auto), 2945 (Si manual)
Trk = 59.0 F / 60.2 R

Looking back against a previous gen Accord, in 1988:

WB = 102.4
L = 174.8
W = 66.7
H = 52.6
Wgt = 2579 (LX sedan), 2668 (LXi sedan)
Trk = 58.3 F / 58.1 R

:blah:

So the new Civic is basically the same size as the 1994 Accord, and significantly bigger than the 1988 Accord. I bet you'd find that the Fit is pretty close in most dimensions (except weight!) to 1988 or 1995 Civic...

 

My brother-in-law actually put a deposit down on a new Camry Hybrid. Toyota jerked him around about the ship date for weeks on end. The car finally came in and I must say the exterior is much better than the previous generation (the car he currently owns) but the inside was pretty crappy actually. I too saw the misaligned trim pieces and it the materials were not worthy of being in a $33k car. Anyway, he ended up buying a fully loaded pre-owned 05 CTS. I had a little something to do with that

 

Not exactly the same type of car (boring, slow but economical fwd family hauler vs. not-so-boring, quick and fun to drive but not quite as fuel efficient rwd near lux / sport sedan...), but cool nonetheless.

Hope he enjoys it!!

 

The Fit reminds me of the late 80's CRX, certainly nothing new.

 

He loves it so far. He picked it up three days before their honey moon to Mexico so it is sitting in the garage right now I am sorry, I just could not let a 26 year old guy get a Camry.

 

I wonder how the fit and finish on the Kentucky-built Camry is compared to the Japan-built ES350 that is based on it? I wonder how much of that is due to the location it's built at versus just the corporate standard range for acceptable quality that is intentionally enforced/allowed to come out of each plant?

In other words I wonder if the ES350 is built significantly better than the Camry (and in my experience, it most definitely is)... is that mostly intentional on Toyota's part (to save money, etc), or is it simply a byproduct of where they're built?

 

I would much rather have the old CRX than a Fit. There is a nice looking red one in the parking lot at school every now and then I have to take a 2nd look at, just to see if a SBC could fit between the fenders with enough work.

 

Perhaps a side-effect of "We're Number 1" means copying some of GM's worst ideas, such as intentionally making lousy interiors for the pleb models.

Actually, there's been a lot of Toyotas with relatively crappy interiors. However, if I start seeing "cheap" inside Hondas, then I'm really going to start worrying that the Japanese are badge-engineering and resting on their laurels.

 

or option 3, that being quality in volume. Its easy to put it together right if you have time too.

 

So what, does this mean I have to start subscribing to C&D again?

 

This doesn't surprise me. CandD have never been crazy about Toyotas, simply because they are pure appliance cars. I know they recently rated the Avalon 1st over 5 other cars (Maxima, 300 V6, Ford 500, Buick Lacrosse, Kia Amanti), but typically their cars are too vanilla for CandD. So they end up finishing midpack based on their good build quality and fit/finish, along with generally being fairly quiet and refined.

In my experience, CandD swings quite addictively from the nuts of BMW (and, lately, Infiniti), Porsche, and sometimes MB. In lower priced models, they are all about Honda and lately Nissan.

I am pretty much ready to predict the next full size truck comparo:

1) Tundra 5.7L six speed
2) Silverado/Sierra
3) Nissan Titan
4) Dodge Ram
5) Ford F150

4 and 5 may be reversed, but I'm betting that is the order of the others. I'll be quite surprised if it isn't.

In the thread about the new Tundra (the title is actually about the engine), someone posted a quote from Motor Trend (generally a bunch of clowns) in which that particular author said that Toyota seems to have been chasing the GMT800 trucks, that the Tundra falls short in a few areas (especially the interior), despite the impressive powertrain. Even with that short review, I can see the Tundra winning a comparo (much like the Miata did in a head to head with the Solstice in CandD, even though the month prior they had given a slight advantage to the Solstice in sort of a quick, minicomparo). One thing to remember with these mags is that, even though they use the editorial "we" when using the first person, it is really often just one person who tested the car. So one guy might love it (or hate it), but then when the vehicle is tested again, the next guy might feel quite differently. In the comparos, even though several editors are on hand to evaluate the vehicles and generate performance data, only one editor ultimately pens the article that sums up the test.

Recall when the Mustang made the 10 Best and the GTO didn't...in the comparison of the two, even as the GTO mopped the floor with the Mustang in just about every category, the "fun to drive" and "gotta have it" factors mysteriously tipped just enough to give the Mustang a 1 point win...You might think that same mentality would help the Silverado in an MT comparo, but they could still pick the Tundra and then say "well, the Tundra wasn't eligible/available for the TOTY testing" and thus be excused from picking the Tundra over the truck that they just named TOTY a month prior...

 

Well the actual volume is likely relative to the capabilities/capacities of the plants, number of workers, etc. If the ES assembly line makes 1/20th the number of cars as the Camry line, but also has 1/20th the # of employees, resources, etc... then it should be relatively even, if not slightly in the Camry's favor since it allows each employee to be more specialized and focus on a single part of the process that they know like the back of their hand.

 

Seems reasonable since one plant makes a premium brand car and the other a standard rate car.

... which wouldnt discredit the potential of our American autoworkers.

 

You beat me to it....