I'm going to have to disagree and say Proud's comparison is very valid. The new Toyota, if it does what it is rumored to do, will be in that 3/4 ton territory as far as tow and haul weight.

For Toyota to come in and take market share it will have to do something that none of the Big 3 don't do......I'm not sure what that is right now. If you have a 10,000 tow rating, great....how many 1/2 ton users use their trucks even half that?

 

I just can't see other farmers around here with a Toyota. Some of the guys that don't tow will have an avalance, escalade ext(high rollers), and I have seen VERY few titans. I think unless the truck market grows, and there is more potential buyers, they don't have much of a chance to be hitting 250,000 units a year...

 

Great job of restating the obvious...
I said IN MY ORIGINAL POST...
"Of course, that is comparing a Superduty to a half-ton which is unfair to the Toy...ota."

Likewise, claiming to be something you aren't is pretty rediculous.

I also explained in my post that I WORK my truck to a much higher duty than anything Toyota has to offer. Simply put, them offering me "their best" is still not good enough for what I do, hence there was no comparison and no value to their full-sized truck for me personally.

I said IN MY ORIGINAL POST...
"Simply put, Toyota doesn't offer anything to me whatsoever..."
Apparently though, you have no idea how many superduty trucks are sold each year!
1/1 thru 2/27 of 2006...
F-series Regular - 86,533
F-series Superduty - 64,812


So, you obviously skimmed over my post and did not read any of the details I took the time to type, or you probably would not have repeated everything I posted as if I didn't.

The intent of my post was to demonstrate that there are many of us out here who use trucks at a level not understood by many (read that as MOST) people (as eluded to by Chrome383Z). There is a HUGE difference between a vehicle simply making it to 200k miles with an occasional fridge or sofa in the back, and making it to 200k miles while constantly pulling heavy loads, hauling heavy loads, going through fields and ditches under load, using the 4x4 system 10-15% of the time you drive it to keep from tearing up the pasture and dirt roads, pulling boats up ramps, pulling cars and tractors, etc. This huge gap in percieved "truck use" is what will prevent Toyota from simply "taking over" the truck market. Toyota has been pushing full-sized trucks for years now, but they are still MILES away from making a truck that comes close to doing what I personally need to do with it.

I do not think the domestics have a "free pass" by any means, but I also think they are doing a great job at making trucks that are incredibly durable, capable, and well-built. As long as they stay on the aggressive, I think they will do fine.

While we are at it, someone else eluded to the durability of those old tiny Toyota trucks. Well, that's a bit of an irony in it's own right. First of all, those old 1970's Toyota trucks were TINY. They had a cargo capability equal to the average weight of two American men. They were not used to haul John Deere 2010's or Ford Diesel 4000 tractors. They did not haul 40-50 bales of hay in the bed. They were ANEMIC in so far as power (they could barely move themselves at speed, much less pull anything with any mass - my in-laws had one they used on a paper route to throw @ 1200 papers every morning... it smoked like crazy, but it did make it to +200k miles before it finally died. Cost of repairs exceeded the cost of a replacement vehicle, so it went to the crusher. BTW, they are still using a 1986 F250 with the 6.9 diesel on that route today, with 310k miles on it and going strong.) So those little trucks were not really abused or worked they way a 1970 F100 or C10 was on a daily basis... no wonder they ran so long, is it? And I still see 1960s and 1970s model domestic trucks on a daily basis... sheetrockers, landscapers, electrical contractors, framers, stone masons, and the typical old farm truck with the tailgate beat COMPLETELY off the thing, beds have so sign of any paint left in them, and the bodies have no straight panels to be seen... but it still runs, still working, and waiting for it's next chore.
Not so often the case with those little old Toyotas...

 

Why is the assumption that they aren't doing something right?

2005 was a down year for all low-gas mileage vehicles...light truck/SUV sales were off 50% in September and October 2005...it's rather short-sighted to pick out one vehicle who's sales are decreasing and say it's "bad" when all light truck sales are having problems with sales.

 

In VERY large segment "light duty trucks" that has a 2+million in volume the relatively new entry Titan appears that's it missing something or not giving truck buyers something they want. Buyers tend to vote with their wallet. The graph tends to indicate a trend no? Only asked the question and didn't say the truck was bad. It just appears that the Titian hasn't had great penetration of the market. Is the current volume of the Titan meeting Nissan’s expectations?

 

I think the point is, your Nissan truck has never made the kind of dent some people were predicting it would make in the Big 3's market, therefore, why is Toyota expecting to fair better.....

Nissan never hit its 100,000/year sales goal in any year, let alone consistantly. Toyota expecting to double its sales of the Tundra just seems to be a bit of a reach in this market. That is all.

 

My point is, the "graph" would be much more meaningful if the figures for all the Titan's direct competitors (half-tons with similar equipment choices, etc) were being shown for the same period of time.

For example, while SUV sales have plumeted in recent months, the Tahoe has been selling well, comparatively, while the Yukon has had fairly dismal sales numbers - were I to show a graph of only the Yukon's sales, it would gve a far different picture of what's going on for that particular market than if I show both or all makes.

I'm not claiming that the Titan is a big "success" for Nissan but sometimes, it's more important that a nameplate be "in" a particular market even if they never become king of the hill. That aside, let's not forget that the Titan is the first legitimate attempt by any non-Detroit make to break into the full-sized truck market; also an important step...I'm not sure Toyota would have tried had Nissan not taken the fist stab at it.

All that to say, don't let the first two years of Titan color your opinions to such an extent that you think the issue is over and Detroit has won...let's look at things 10 years from now and see where things stand.

 

I was the one who mentioned the old Toyota trucks, but I was referring to the early 80's through mid 90's pickups and land cruisers. While they were not towing heavy weight and were relatively small, they were very durable and beat on often.

Their reputation comes from off-roading and rock crawling. While this is not the same as towing, it does show the strength of their components and the durability. I have yet to see a Toyota "die" anywhere under 200k and many make it to 300k and beyond. Remember this is a gasoline enigne, not a diesel, there is a HUGE difference when it comes to longevity.

Now, comparing those little trucks to a new Titan might seem useless, but what I take away from this is that Toyota did it right with their small trucks so potentially they can do it again with a full-size truck.

 

I think the question has to be asked, what is Toyota going to do different then what Nissan did with the Titan?

 

Offer a better performing truck from a company with a better reputation. I am beginning to think it may not be enough though.

 

Forbes artical on new Toyota truck

Also, I think Detroit could take do something different and put diesels in their 1/2 on trucks. Maybe not the same size are the 3/4 and 1 tons, but it would be something different and I think there would be some people that would be interested.

 

The reason they are so popular in "Rock Crawling" is because the bodies are so rusted up and junk that you can get them for $500.00 bucks.

The drivetrains didn't last too bad partially because of the weak engines in them. Like mentioned above you couldn't haul two people. So these trucks never really saw any work. And, last time I checked a 350k 4.3V6 is still a Gasoline Engine...

 

Obviously he doesn't understand the concept of a V6 (ooo) or a V8 (oooo)...



But I agree they need to offer it with a 5.3L V8 (Maybe 4.8L?) or a Nice running V6 for sure.

 

I believe you're reffering to the old 300 inline 6 (4.9L). It wasn't very strong, but it has to be the toughest gas engine ever offered in a domestic truck. My dad has a 94 f150 4wd with the I6... 175k miles and still ticking. This truck spends much of it's time pulling loaded gooseneck trailers and mud running, NOT babied at all. But it's been through 2 or 3 tranny rebuilds and 2 sets of hubs (converting to manual hubs later this year). Old man Welch that lives down the road from me has an even older f150 and it just tripped 280k miles on the factory stock engine and drivetrain (except the tranny), and still doesn't smoke or use oil. It's a registered farm truck that lives in the fields pulling trailers. They gulp gas though.

I, too, don't see the "import" trucks (being built here) making much of a dent in the US FS-truck market for a long time. They are nice, don't get me wrong, but they're pushing a big square rock up a steep hill. The domestics are well experienced and battle-hardened in the truck/SUV market. Of all things in life, experience is the hardest thing to beat... in any situation. Write that down.

 

Toyota to my knowledge still does not have a diesel or "heavy duty" version out. But the people with all those dualie HD Diesel 3500s or whatever never seem to use them. Fact is that the farmers and whatnot are probably the only people in the pickup market in dire need of a heavy duty truck. Everybody else thinks because they need to move a couch once that they require a pickup. Something like a Tacoma or a Tundra is a great every day truck, far surprassing the Ridgeline or the Titan. IMO I think the old design was a lot nicer than this new one, but that's just me. Toyota trucks do have the workhorse reliability and get neglected and still churn around.

Let's not forget why this competition is happening; the US-brand automakers have slipped up on quality for enough years to let the imports squeak into the market and scorn some old loyalists.