We all had our opinions and general acceptions of what the Camaro should be if it were to appeal to the masses. But now with this talk of it being a "niche" vehicle, certain things have changed, at least for me.

For one, no AWD. If we're talking about a Zeta car being in Chevy's line-up that isn't a Camaro, then let that get it. AWD needs to be on a mass production car IMHO. If they're only going to be selling less than 40,000 of these things a year, as much as I hate to say it, theres no need to appeal to a particular region.

400HP base performance engine doesn't sound all that insane anymore. On a mass production vehicle, its out of question. There needs to be something else below that, or at least an "underrated" LS2 or something like that. But even a complete V8 line-up makes sense now. There is no need for bread and butter cars in the model line-up anymore. A base V6 would be pretty expensive anyway on a limited production car, save the V6's for the Monte's or Chevelles or whatever have you.

We are probably going to be looking at a more expensive car now. Even base V8's, I would imagine would be well above $25K, probably topping out at over $40K for top-of-the-line cars. Considering we will be getting 'Vette performance on a similar production vehicle with nearly the same creature comforts, we can only expect it to be nearly as expensive.

One very sad thing to think about is that we have absolutely no gaurantees about when the Camaro will go on "hiatus" again after production starts. As a niche car, it'll mean less to GM to cut back than a big production car would.

Discuss.

 

As a niche car, I would expect that means heritage cues. Niche to me denotes an aspirational vehicle, so visual appeal and the performance content will probably be paramount on a niche Camaro. They will be reviewing Camaro history, pinpointing the attributes that denote "American Muscle," and putting it together with a level of performance that they believe muscle car enthusiasts will jump at. In that regard, I can't see it exceeding a $25-30K price point (be it MSRP or true transaction price). It will still have to compete against the Mustang, even if not in volume because that is part of the history.

To me this points to a car that will be priced above Solstice, but have a similar design goal ... a driver's car.

Along this line of thinking, it would seem to me that the car may be designed in a way that lends itself to three areas .... a Blvd cruiser, a club racer (Trans Am series), and a 1/4 mile runner.

With the right platform, a Camaro could then be factory optioned with different basic drivetrain/suspension components (shocks, springs, swaybars, rear end ratios) that would not increase the price point significantly, but would get the car to about 90% of where the customer/enthusiast in each of those 3 categories wants it.

 

red has already said this. it has been a fact

 

so now we want a corvette for $30K ?

niche... this is a recent change, but we're jumping it all over and building things out of thin air. it almost appears that most here feel that by niche they mean to have adapted Corvette frame/chassis to fit additional 2 seats, and THAT'S IT.

going from one extreme to another.

 

OK, so here's what I'm wondering...

Was this a smart move by GM or not. Because if Camaro only sells say 40k units a year, that's less than the number of Mustangs that were pre-ordered. Now if GM stands to make a good profit, good for them.

Now, assuming the general car buying market is a bunch of idiots, which they are ( I mean non-enthusiasts no matter brand), then they'll still see the Camaro and realize it's superior to the M*stang. Only the enthusiasts will know that GM only sold say 40k of them a year.

Now as a niche vehicle, I would like to see it roughly the same price as the M*stang, but likely a little higher due to it's superiority. The line-up I would like to see is a V6 (doesn't matter which one, I won't buy it) for the crowd who loves Camaro but doesn't need the power, a mid-level V8 SS with 375-390 hp, and a resonably priced top model Z28 with 400-425 horses. I also think we should have more control over the options we want, so don't offer packages like the Trans Am where you have to get it all if you want the top of the line model.

I'm still unsure whether the niche thing is good or not. Obviously it's better for the enthusiast, but is it better for Camaro?

 

If its a niche car, there could be only one model like the SSR.

Or another alternative would be to treat it like the Corvette:
V8 Coupe
V8 Convertible
V8 Coupe Hi Perf (ala Z06)

If you want to keep costs down on a niche car, you limit the drivetrain options, but market it with add-ons for those that want to "dress it up."

The Zeta Coupe (Chevelle?) will get the V6, base V8 and SS trim packages.

 

A reason why it can't be that much higher than the stang is because the stang owners will complain. Right now they are looking at the gto and saying 'no its not in the same price range as the stang so if the gto beats it thats ok because we still got the better deal, and if we put the money we saved into our cars blah blah blah'. I don't want them using that exscuse when they get beat by a new camaro.

 

Niche vehicle? I think they should go big or go home. They sold 40,000 units a year on a nine year old platform with a lot of compromises. If they can't sell at least 60,000 a year with a new groundbreaking design then there is something wrong with the design, not the business case.

 

i personally think it was a bad move for gm atleast imo
i can see where they want to go with it, but i still think the camaro if advertised right, styled right, etc. could fulfill the 2 car slots we are supposedly getting
jmho

 

However, maybe I'm reading into guy's recent post incorrectly but the Delaware plant needs 100k+ units a year more. So maybe it will be a mass produced niche vehicle... lol if that makes any sense. Maybe they think they can drive up the demand for the vehicle if it's a superior product. 100k units does not sound niche to me.

WHO KNOWS??? not me. wish I did though.

 

well, the way i'm looking at it, it seems that they could make less camaro units and also build a couple of other cars alongside the saturn/solstices
the question then becomes...
how is the camaro business case in that situation?
you can't expect to keep a car around that sells too few a units at a "bargain price" as z284ever stated
either this camaro would have to be made cheap so it can be sold cheap and be considered enough to make a great enough profit or else it'd be done for in a few years

i do hope though that they try to get it to over 100k units a year for the camaro though
with the feedback we've been getting (clinics going good, chassis is lining up on it) it should be able to get atleast 100k
that's jmho but if they can do this car right, it will easily move that many and more
i think they can do it, i've got faith in them, for some reason that i don't know why

 

I was referring to it being able to be developed relatively inexpensively on the new architecture.

 

The whole niche thing is bugging me. Not a big fan of this, and I saw this as one of the problems with using the Kappa chassis. The chassis is designed for limited production, and that was always a big problem with me. Its still one of the reasons I hope for a Zeta Camaro.
A Camaro without a V6 in its line up would not make the car go head to head with the Mustang, but make it a 4 seater Vette, something that did not go over well with the last gen.
I think that with the possible cars that could come from Kappa, it could easily fill the Willmington plant. 25k Solstices, 25k Saturn roadsters, on top of 30 or so Torana's, and then 40-50k European models, perhaps more if demand peaked. Hell, just the addition of a Pontiac Torana could fill the plant by itself. Not to mention a Saab variant. Willmington could get very crowded.

 

Why is limited production a big problem with you?

The reason the 4-seater 'Vette thing didn't go so well in the 4th gen is because of the Camaro's whole business case at the time. It had been planned to be a mass production vehicle, in a factory that had a much higher production rate than the f-body could meet. Whats not to say that Team Camaro can't put together a solid business case for a lower production car in a factory where it will fit right in?

 

Honestly, I haven't heard anything that sounds like Camaro is coming back as a low volume niche player.