If a 5th gen Camaro is to succeed, which one must be done right?

 

How do I vote if I want "Z28" instead of Z/28?

 

I think they ALL need to be right. But, the answer to the S/Ced M*stang is to return the Z28 back to greatness to counter and outperform it. It needs to be a unique looking Camaro that every1 has to look out for again. When people hear "its a Z28" or "he has a new Z28," it needs to make the other person think twice about messing with 1 again.

 

I think the base (RS) model has to be designed to sell to the masses in a major way in order make the business plan of another Camaro to work. This is why the Mustang has succeed because those V6s sell very well and make a great alternative to a generic 4 bangers.

that being said I really think that the 2005 V6 Stang will sell closer to $25 grand and the 2005 Focus will move more upscale and the performance SVT Focus coupe/hatch back will have either v6 or supercharger and fill the high teens / low $20's price range where the stang use to be.

 

I feel strongly that ALL models must be absolutely right on!

*The importance of the base car should not be overlooked. It has to have quality, cache, desirability and be fairly attainable.

*The Z/28 (or Z28 for redzed ), MUST return to it's roots as a bareknuckled brawler that inspires respect at the very mention of it's name.

*The SS must be something other than a Z/28 in drag. I submit that Camaro SS should be the model that offers the most choices...just like the '05 Mustang GT will be.

 

An F5 will be pretty much a 'clean slate' approach, so everything must be done correctly.

 

"Dead nuts" right on? That's a new one.

I think base model will ultimately be the most important. We've seen the results when it's just Z28 sales to the hardcore crowd. I'd also like more content and separation in the SS model--something akin to the Z06 over the regular Corvette; Not just a "package" for the Z28.

 

Here-Here! I agree 100%.

Look at it another way - IF there is a less-than-perfect model of the Camaro that proves problematic (say the tranny on the V6 models tend to drop OD bearings at 30k miles for example), do you think the common public is going to discern that the problem is ONLY related to the V6 cars with light-duty transmissions? NO, hayal NO! They public at large will just pass the gossip at water coolers and parts stores that "The new Camaro's suck - their trannys are putrid." So anyone else in that conversation desides,"Hmmm, I don't want one of those." and there goes sales of an otherwise great car in the SS or Z/28 models.

The same kind of thing happens in recalls too. People hear of a recall on the Explorer, and they don't care if it affects the V6 or V8 engine, body, or tires - they just don't feel cozy with the entire MODEL after hearing the word "recall".

So yes, they should ALL be "great" cars, regardless of the performance level IMO.

 

If I'm assuming this right (and correct me if I'm not) I think what you have listed is a lineup for guaranteed failure, and here's why.

To make the Camaro performance crowd happy, all that needs to be done is to make the next one Z28 or SS fast as feasible, t-topped, and able to take Mustangs. These are the guys here that traded in one 4th gen Camaro for another simply because it was newer, or simply to get the LS1 over the LT1 engine. The base model? Simply screw it together right and price it low, and someone will buy it.

It doesn't take a basketful of IQ to do these models right. And simply the newness of the carline and the fact it was missing for a few years will make it successful for a year or 2, before it drops like a retro Thunderbird. Neither end of this model line has enough people to keep it going. Example? The 4th gen Camaro.

For Camaro to have a future, it has to have a level that isn't all about performance and isn't all about being a "base" car. An RS as I understand it is an appearence model that "looks" like the faster car. But what Camaro needs is a comfortable "luxury touring" car that will bring in new buyers, women, and those that simply want a nice (but quick) car to commute in. The best example I can come up with is the LT.

If what you mean is the RS too fill the LT role, I apologise for misunderstanding it, and this would be the model I'd most vote for as THE most important model to be done right.

But with today's young buyers more likely to associate "Rally" with AWD and dirt courses, we may need to find a different name.

 

Unless GM finds a way to make a low volume Camaro profitable, all models need to be "on". The performance gurus are going to be there for the Z/28 and SS as long as they do what they have been doing for the last decade, kickin' Mustang butt The base model is the one that really needs to find a way to be attractive to a variety of buyers.


-Mike

 

Actually, I see versions of the SS filling the Type LT role. That's what I meant by "choice". I can envision the SS being available in a number of configurations....including mild to wild powertrains.

REMEMBER: the Camaro type LT eventually replaced the Camaro SS in the '70s, so I think that this argument has merit.
Why not have a V6 Camaro with the "SS look"? I think it would sell.

And remember my earlier comments on the IROC-Z? Most of them came with the low-po motors. (LG-4, L03, LB9 with the "peanut cam"), 2.73 rear ends, A4 and drum brakes. They were slow...but looked and sounded good....and sold like crazy!

 

This is exactly what Ford is doing now with the Mustang: offering the hoodscoop and other appearance goodies for the V6.

The "Pony Package."

 

Here is a formula that GM seems to recognise....yet does not fully understand.

The argument by GM is...when the late '80s base 3rd gen started taking on the look of the Z/28 and IROC-Z they sold better. That is why the 4th gen Z/28 looked like the base model.

BUT GM'S THINKING HERE, HAS A FATAL FLAW!

GM's argument says that the same ultimate effect was expected whether the base model is "brought up"(3rd gen paradigm) to the look of the upscale model....or if the upscale model is "brought down" (4th gen paradigm) to the look of the base model.

Of course....we all know how flawed this hypothesis is!

 

Exactly.

I've gone into this serveal times before (in fact, I just posted this thoey in another thread minutes ago)..


It's not really what things look like, it's the psychology behind it.

People looked as late 3rd Gen base cars as "Upgraded Value" to the base car, while critics of the 4th Gen look at the SAME EXACT SITUATION as "Downgraded Value" to the V8 car.

 

IROCs in 1989 started at just over $14,000 while more loaded Mustang GTs were $1000 less. Camaro RS (which I think you meant) was around $11,400.

It was the RS that was selling like crazy, outselling IROC 4 to 1. The IROC Z from a sales stand point was a failure! That's why Z28 came back!

Camaro sales breakdown:
http://www.thirdgenresource.com/production_numbers

As far as SS to LT change, the Camaro SS during the collasping ponycar market was redundant to the Z28, and Chevy successfully created a model that bridged the gap between sport and luxury, and it was the 2nd best selling model next to the base model in 1978 (far ahead Z28).

In 1972 6,562 SS Camaros were made of 68,600 total (+/- 10% of total).
Only 2,600 Z28s that year.
In 1978 71,331 Camaro LTs were sold of 272,631 (+/- 23% of total).
Only 5,700 Z28s that year.

1989 Camaro data:
http://www.iroczone.com/specs/camaro/camaro89.html
http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro78.html
http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/camaro72.html