With all this talk of a potential Firebird return, and whether or not it should be based on a different platform from Camaro, or use the same chassis, and how the Firebird consumed much of Camaro's f-body budget, I was wondering if the more enlightened ones here on the board could shed some light on the subject.

How does GM allocate resources to a car line, and does it allocate more resources to a line that has multi stable mates? I'm just confused, because I would think GM would allocate more to the F-body platform considering Pontiac was involved as well.

Now obviously, the most information I get is from this board, so I was hoping some here could shed some light. Guy, Pacer, Charlie, even Scott, can anyone chime in on this?

Did Firebird eat into Camaro's budget, or did the F-car program recieve additional funding due to Firebird being there?

 

I dont know much detail but I know during the 4th gen the Bird ate a lot of the F-bodies budget.....that why I dont want to see it return...I'd rather see more options and special models on the Camaro than anything form Pontiac.

 

stars1010, I was wondering if you could elaborate a little more about the costs? I didn't know the Firebird costs were dramatically more than the Camaro - I'm really curious to know how's and why's?

Edit - No sarcasm implied, I really want to know

 

I can't imagine a Zeta (or whatever it is at this point that Camaro is on) Firebird "taking money away from the Camaro" like the 4th Gen did. (Of course, that whole concept of 'taking money away from the Camaro' all comes from a given point of view (ie. Camaro's point of view). If you are a Firebird perosn, you coudl say that Camaro took money from the Firebird...

Think about it... the 4th Gen Camaro and Firebird were the ONLY TWO VEHICLES on the F-platform. That meant there were only two vehicles to make money, spend money on, and spread costs out on...

Any new Firebird that would share it's platform with Camaro would also be sharing it with a host of other RWD coupes and sedans, and perhaps even crossovers, etc (think how SRX is on Sigma, just like CTS and STS)

It shouldn't be even close to the same thing....

 

I believe the whole "Firebird stole money from the Camaro" to be blown way out of proporation. I believe most of the costs of the number of hoods, and spoilers came at the expense of Pontiac and SLP.

 

With that same logic, does it mean that the Saturn Sky will take money from Solstice? Somehow, I don't think so. Personally, I don't think the Firebird took anything away from Camaro. We all know that GM wanted the f-body to die. Plain and simple.

 

Sky doesn't take a penny away from Solstice. Because Kappas have mig welded chassis', production is limited to no more than 40,000 per year. No 2 seat roadster in history has ever sold more than 20,000 units per year, and that will include Solstice. Sky helps fill that unused volume. The fact that Opel paid for the styling on it is a bonus.

But regarding the 4th gen Camaro/Firebird.... the 4th gen Firebird sucked lots of needed cash away from Camaro.

 

I'm sorry... I'm not buying that "Firebird stole cash from Camaro" line without proof any longer! How about someone offering something in the way of evidence instead of hot-air? Both got an exterior refresh for 98, both got new wheel designs 16" & 17". The only thing I can think of, is that Camaro got a new dash in 97 and the Firebird stayed the same. I would love to hear Scott chime in on this or someone with something more to offer?

 

How many front fascias did Firebird get?
How many rear fascias did Firebird get?
How many hoods did Firebird get?
How many interiors did Firebird get?
How many different wheels did Firebird get?
What percentage of F-car production did Firebird get?

 

I'm not going to argue that Firebird had many more exterior/interior add-ons, changes etc, than Camaro. What I'd love to know is did that really come at the expense of Camaro?

For instance, say Camaro was the only F-body in production and GM allocated $100 million for it ( just tossing out a round #). Now because Firebird would be on the same platform, GM would allocated $150 million. Did all the fascias, bumpers, hoods etc go over the supposed $50 million in my example? If not, then I don't see how Firebird ate up any of Camaro's budget.

Another example I could see is if the allocation of resources were split 50/50 and Firebird ate up more due to the fascias, bumpers and hoods, then I could see where Camaro got shortchanged.

It'd be really nice if Scott could chime in (if he has the right to) and clear this up. I just think considering Firebird was more expensive (thus making more money per sale) and that Pontiac does not have the volume of dealers as Chevy and can't expect to sell the same amount, that Firebird sales weren't as bad as people claim it to be.

 

i would think that the firebird sales that were stealing from the camaro, would be benificial to the company as well as a camaro sale would be.

The dollars will end up going to the same place. However there should be more sales combined than there would be from one model alone. Kind of like getting two medium production versions instead of one High production version.

PLus, if changes are kept to a minimum as they usually were, then the cost would not be excessive.

 

Did Firebird really take money from Camaro? All the extra boddywork indicates that it may have had more money spent on it, but did that money come directly from Camaro? Would Camaro have gotten that money if there was no Firebird, or would it have gone to other Pontiacs, etc?

 

The sale of a 4th gen f-body generates more money for the platform as a whole. Similar parts (engines, trans, rear ends) improve with the increased economy of scale. If the Camaro would have been built alone, it would most certainly have not sold in the numbers that the combination of the two cars sold. Im pro-firebird production, but will buy a Camaro. Im freakin thrilled that the car will share a platorm with other cars in other GM divisions outside of a possible firebird for the same reasons. That kind of spread is what makes a 500hp Camaro possible.

 

That's basically what I'm trying to get at as well. Without Firebird, the cost alone would have been burdened by Camaro. Would that have been possible? I look at the Camaro/Firebird relationship as a symbiotic one, they both helped each other.

 

That what I have been thinking. People on here seem to think the Firebird was some huge blight on the Camaro, but without the Firebird how many F-cars would have actually sold? The Camaro sold more than the Firebird, but the Camaro was also cheaper and there are far, far more Chevy dealerships than Pontiac dealerships. It is foolishness to assert that a 4th gen Firebird customer would have automatically turned to a Camaro in the abscense of the Firebird. I am sure there are more than a handful of Firebird customers out there that don't even know the Camaro and the Firebird are the same cars.

I really would like to hear Scott's input on the 4th gen's budget allocation between the two cars. Just hearing that the Firebird stole the Camaro's funds without any explanation or proof is not enough for me.