California facing lawsuite over new greenhouse gas regulation
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California facing lawsuite over new greenhouse gas regulation
The State of California. Despite all of the proselytizing and the hand-wringing by California environmentalists, BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Ford, General Motors, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Porsche, Toyota and Volkswagen all joined a lawsuit filed in Federal Court in Fresno yesterday against California's new greenhouse gas regulation, which was approved by the state this past September and is slated to take effect in 2016.
Nissan and Honda, who are not part of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, are not part of the suit, but both have gone on record as being dead-set against the proposed regulation too.
This isn't one of those times when the Asian automakers break from the pack and offer a "magic bullet" that will make every other automaker look bad - the issue here is that California has no authority to dictate regulations for the rest of the country and preempt Washington's authority in the matter - period. And the automakers are adamantly against having a patchwork quilt of emissions regulations to deal with all across the country.
The environmentalists were all shocked and disappointed by Toyota's action, given their newly-honed green reputation, but they better get used to it, because this is one time when all of the automakers are unified on an issue, and they're not going to back down.
Source: Autoextremist
Nissan and Honda, who are not part of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, are not part of the suit, but both have gone on record as being dead-set against the proposed regulation too.
This isn't one of those times when the Asian automakers break from the pack and offer a "magic bullet" that will make every other automaker look bad - the issue here is that California has no authority to dictate regulations for the rest of the country and preempt Washington's authority in the matter - period. And the automakers are adamantly against having a patchwork quilt of emissions regulations to deal with all across the country.
The environmentalists were all shocked and disappointed by Toyota's action, given their newly-honed green reputation, but they better get used to it, because this is one time when all of the automakers are unified on an issue, and they're not going to back down.
Source: Autoextremist
I don't know much about this regulation, but It must be pertty bad if tree-hugging Honda and Toyota are dead-set against it
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From: Indianapolis, IN
Re: California facing lawsuite over new greenhouse gas regulation
They want to regulate CO2, a "greenhouse" gas. Some states (maybe all of them, now) are allowed to pass regulations affecting their air quality (while fuel economy is a federal domain). So California has CARB which handles that stuff with respect to "pollutants" (CO, NOx, unburned Hydrocarbons, etc.). Problem is that CO2 is just a natural byproduct of combustion (and a zillion other things). Even if every molecule of gasoline could burn perfectly (eliminating CO, NOx, and HC emissions), they would still give off CO2 in proportion to the amount of fuel being burned. In other words, the only way to give off less CO2 (from a car standpoint) is to burn less fuel, so this rule would effectively be a back-door way for California to enforce stricter than CAFE rules for fuel economy (which is against the law).
Even if they want to lie to us and themselves and say that it is NOT about fuel economy, CO2 is not a pollutant. If it is, then perhaps they will tell us not to go jogging. No sports. Restrictions on the beef industry, so less cattle will be around breathing. OK, so CO2 is a "greenhouse" gas. Thank God for that, so we can have an atmosphere.
But does anyone in California think that they are regulating their OWN air quality? Is the "global warming" phenomenon going to be halted over the little area that is California?...
The automakers are bringing suit (or threatening to sue) because the rule would boil down to a fuel economy measure in disguise, not an effort to reduce "pollution"...
Even if they want to lie to us and themselves and say that it is NOT about fuel economy, CO2 is not a pollutant. If it is, then perhaps they will tell us not to go jogging. No sports. Restrictions on the beef industry, so less cattle will be around breathing. OK, so CO2 is a "greenhouse" gas. Thank God for that, so we can have an atmosphere.
But does anyone in California think that they are regulating their OWN air quality? Is the "global warming" phenomenon going to be halted over the little area that is California?... The automakers are bringing suit (or threatening to sue) because the rule would boil down to a fuel economy measure in disguise, not an effort to reduce "pollution"...
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Joined: May 2000
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Re: California facing lawsuite over new greenhouse gas regulation
The writer from the autoextremist writes from his heart without bothering to check any facts whatsoever.
He should have read the 10th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. CA has EVERY right to pass such a law. Coincidently, the Federal Government only has the right, via the Constitution, to regulate air and water only to the extent that it effects "interstate commerce" or to the extent that they can show that it "promotes the general welfare", the latter being a very thin power granted therein.
The rhetoric behind the CA case involves the rights of the Federal branch vs. the states, but the actual facts that are being argued are far different.
He should have read the 10th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. CA has EVERY right to pass such a law. Coincidently, the Federal Government only has the right, via the Constitution, to regulate air and water only to the extent that it effects "interstate commerce" or to the extent that they can show that it "promotes the general welfare", the latter being a very thin power granted therein.
The rhetoric behind the CA case involves the rights of the Federal branch vs. the states, but the actual facts that are being argued are far different.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: California facing lawsuite over new greenhouse gas regulation
Originally Posted by Bearcat Steve
The writer from the autoextremist writes from his heart without bothering to check any facts whatsoever.
He should have read the 10th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. CA has EVERY right to pass such a law. Coincidently, the Federal Government only has the right, via the Constitution, to regulate air and water only to the extent that it effects "interstate commerce" or to the extent that they can show that it "promotes the general welfare", the latter being a very thin power granted therein.
The rhetoric behind the CA case involves the rights of the Federal branch vs. the states, but the actual facts that are being argued are far different.
He should have read the 10th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. CA has EVERY right to pass such a law. Coincidently, the Federal Government only has the right, via the Constitution, to regulate air and water only to the extent that it effects "interstate commerce" or to the extent that they can show that it "promotes the general welfare", the latter being a very thin power granted therein.
The rhetoric behind the CA case involves the rights of the Federal branch vs. the states, but the actual facts that are being argued are far different.
But the main kicker is that California has an exclusive Federal law in which we can set our own pollution standards. If our CARB gets away with classifying CO2 as a pollutant, there is a clause in the Federal law that allows states to follow California's pollution standards, even if it's stricter than the Federal standard.
In short, California's Air Resource Board would have defacto power to set fuel economy standards, something only the Federal Government can do. This means that even though congress weighed everything and decided to impose modest increases in fuel economy standards, CARB, under pressure from our enviromental nut cases (you only have to be loud, not great in numbers) can set even higher fuel standards. At the moment, most every state in the north east follows California's pollution standards to some degree or another. Not good if the public wants SUVs so bad, they lobbied their congressmen not to jack up CAFE.
Even here in the Golden State, small high mileage or electric cars aren't selling well by any standards outside of the bay area. There is a large California dealer association that is also joining in this suit. They have a stake in this as well.
Even in California, there's little support for this.
Last edited by guionM; Dec 9, 2004 at 05:31 AM.
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From: New England
Re: California facing lawsuite over new greenhouse gas regulation
CO2...as in Carbon Dioxide??
WTF?? if so..that means everyone breathing is creating a greenhouse effect??
Give me a break...if it is Carbon Dioxide..what about Hydrogen cars..they would of put out just CO@ as a "waste"...man tree huggers are getting a little to picky..
If they want to help they should just hold their breath...
WTF?? if so..that means everyone breathing is creating a greenhouse effect??
Give me a break...if it is Carbon Dioxide..what about Hydrogen cars..they would of put out just CO@ as a "waste"...man tree huggers are getting a little to picky..
If they want to help they should just hold their breath...
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