Maybe we want more taxes so we can get roads on par with the rest of the decent countries?

 

1. The United States has the LOWEST taxes of any first world nation. To say our taxes are high is simply ridiculous. Compare our roads and infrastructure to other first world nations, and you'll see in a heartbeat which country skimps.

2. Car companies SHOULD NOT tell the government to FOff and build whatever the hell they want. The United States imports hella too much oil. So much so that the stability of the country is threatened since we have to import from countries that don't particularly like us and can use it's oil as leverage.

3. The plunging dollar has driven up fuel prices in the United States far faster than other countries, and therefore the demand for fuel efficient cars. When this round of CAFE was first proposed, we didn't have a morgage meltdown, a recession, and $4 gasoline.

Anthing regarding the automobvile that affects us on a national level should and needs to be regulated. Making sure vehicles are the safest and most fuel efficient as is economically & technologically, feasible. Regardless as to if you believe in Global Warming or not, we absolutely need to reduce our dependence on oil because:

1) it makes our economy venerable to any country that wants to cut our supply in retaliation to any policy we have that they might not like
2) As China & India grow industrially, they are going to need more oil, driving up the price even farther, also effecting our economy

In both cases, the issue in National Security.

Gas taxes are the most effective way of reducing consumption. However, in this country, we prefer our money going into the pockets of individuals and the highest profits any company has made in human history instead of improved roads and bridges, so if we need to rasie fuel prices, we prefer it jacked up by companies than our government.

They're jacked up, and now we're finally cutting back usage.


The idea that we should have lower taxes and additional tax cuts is rendered moot by the fact that any shortfall in the budget (the difference between what money is needed for the national budget and what's collected in taxes) is going to be borrowed from China and any other country willing to buy our bonds and notes.

Guess what happens then, my friend?

Instead of paying a few more dollars in taxes, you instead have to pay those few more dollars in taxes anyway...[i]and you have to pay China extra money in intrest... and you gave them leverage to be allowed to sell more goods in the US and not only increase our trade deficit, but also put additional US workers out of a job since it went to China.

Our taxes aren't too high. It's that our tax structure is taylored to where you pay far more of the percentage of taxes (government income) than those earning in the top 8% of income and corperations.

Think our taxes are high? Look at every other modern nation. Taxes are the price of being a first world nation. Everything from the largest highway network in the world to the most powerful military in history has a pricetag. Unless you've built up an immunity to cholera, perfer your meat uninspected, think education should be optional, and don't make garbage, it's going to cost you.

India and China have extremely low to non-existent taxes, but I don't think you'd actually want to live there.

As a sidenote, YOU are paying $12,000,000,000 per month (yes, that's billion) for that money pit called Iraq (a total of $144 billion annually, not including longe term costs such as Veterns care and equipment replacement). Meanwhile the whole budget to improve our security was a mere $39 billion, less than $40 billion is being spent improving our infrastructure next year.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/

 

Careful Guy, turning this into a political discussion will only get this thread locked.

 

GuionM, you are, quite literally, right on the money.

I'm sure we can all expect a tax increase soon to pay for all the stuff you talked about in your post. The longer it is before that increase happens, the more it's going to hurt us.

 

But, magically, people are starting to lean toward more fuel efficient vehicles and other options to reduce their fuel costs, before the new CAFE standards. huhwhat??

 

Average - income people pay more taxes than rich people, percentage-wise.
But overall, the gov't takes in a smaller percentage of it's citizens' income than most other countries.

 

Even if that is true (and I'd like to see the numbers, since I've also seen that the top 1% - or some very small number - pay over 50% of the income taxes collected...), why wouldn't it be?

We all use the same government services, right? Same roads, same military, same police/fire department...

If you earn $200k and I earn $100k, if we both paid 20% of our income, I pay $20k to the gov't while you pay $40k. Why? Are you getting twice the service from the government? But the way our system is, the person earning more pays a HIGHER income tax rate (not counting tax shelters for investments and such, which of course drive the economy...).

 

Yes. Someone who is twice as wealthy does benefit much more from our society than the poorer guy.

 

.....and there you have it. The rich don't stay rich by paying taxes.

 

OK, how?

You mean, they benefit more from their wealth, which they work for? Of course they do.

But what government services, that taxes pay for, do they benefit more from than the lower-income person?

 

They still pay more than the lower/middle class. Again, maybe not as big a PERCENTAGE of their income, but more actual dollars. Which is what the government runs on.

 

That all depends.....especially when a lot of "rich" people can make it "look" like they're losing money.....so how much tax would you think they'd pay on that "lost" money?.....I'd have to say much less than most of us who make our money through jobs/employment and actually pay income taxes. The funny thing is that most of us "normal folks" can do the same kinds of things to "shelter" our money.

Oh, and CAFE shouldn't pose a problem.

 

They only are able to generate that wealth due to the protections afforded by the government.

 

US tax brackets based on taxable income:

0 to $8025= 10%
$8025 to $32,550= 15%
$32,550 to 78,850= 25%
$78,850 to 164,550= 28%
$164,550 to 357,700= 33%
$357,700 and up = 35%

The top 3 brackets were cut in 2001.
They used to be 30.5%, 35.5%, and 39.1%, respectively.

Meanwhile, while the top bracket got a 4% reduction, you and I got a 2% reduction. This effectively threw a larger share of the federal income (taxes) on to you and I.

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm



1. If you are proposing that those who use government services the most pay the most towards it, that would put us pretty much on the level with India, Pakistan, and probally Ethiopia as well. The wealthy get to keep all of what they make.

2. The hypothetical situation mentioned (20% tax rate, 2 people, 1 making $100K the other $200K) one person still walks away with twice as much as the other, regardless as to who gets the service. Are the services to go towards the person who least needs it?

That's the whole idea of government. To protect it's citizentry.

The thing that sets FIRST world nations apart from THIRD world nations isn't technology, a big military, or the bomb. Both China and India have both. It's how they take care of those who aren't able to take care of themselves, it's investing in itself and it's people, and it's ability to recover from as well as prevent or lessen natural and man made disasters.

The people and companies who make the most money should pay the most towards it.

If you as an individual are making $75,000 per year, you paid 25% in taxes ($18,750) and are walking with $56,250. That's equal to the tax cut a person who made $1,486,250 got in 2001 when they got a 4% drop.

Meanwhile your tax break (2%) was a paltry $1500.

That's about $28.80 per week.

$4 per day.

I'm sure that $56,250 the millionaire got back did the millionaire far more good and gave them alot more breathing room to pay their bills and increase their standard of living than the $1500 you & I got did.

 

Wow, I wonder why that happened?