Caddy Zeta rumored dead....
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
If it's any small consolation, the Dodge Challenger is off to a very strong start. It's likely already the 2nd best selling sports coupe in the US. It's selling at almost a 33% rate as the Mustang did for the month of July. That alone is a pretty stunning feat. It's certain to meet Chrysler's target of 30,000 annual sales, and stands at least even money of exceeding it.
If that alone isn't enough, the core buyers so far seem to be people who never considered a Chrysler vehicle who bought the Challenger because of it's looks. It seems that although there are Mopar fans buying the new Challenger, they are so minute in number that they aren't driving the car's sales.
If a Challenger does this well with $4 per gallon gas with the few Dodge dealers around, I think the far greater numbers of Chevy dealers will be able to move a hella lot more Camaros than that.
I'm thinking we'll all be pretty surprized.
If that alone isn't enough, the core buyers so far seem to be people who never considered a Chrysler vehicle who bought the Challenger because of it's looks. It seems that although there are Mopar fans buying the new Challenger, they are so minute in number that they aren't driving the car's sales.
If a Challenger does this well with $4 per gallon gas with the few Dodge dealers around, I think the far greater numbers of Chevy dealers will be able to move a hella lot more Camaros than that.
I'm thinking we'll all be pretty surprized.
1 month does NOT predict a 12-month trend.
Just ask Ford, GM, and Dodge about their 1-month truck sales from November 2007 then compare it to the last 8 months.
Challenger is a NEW car, one that has been enjoying press-hype for 18 months, it's just been all over the cover of every car mag and toilet rag in the last 2 months, it's been in newspapers and on the show circuits. It's been on TV car shows and even the news. Now. people can finally put a hand on one and are reacting to the buildup. I doubt seriously if we see such a wide-spread blitz about this car a year from now, and when the flurry of new cars from Ford and GM starts to hit in late 09 it will put that much more pressure on the market. The new Mustang and Camaro will both debut next year, putting major pressure specifically in that 2-door market too.
In short, I think they better enjoy it while they got it, cause I don't think the party is going to last. Sorry for the bleak outlook, just sharing my opinion. I personally know the caliber of cars that are coming over from Europe, and as much as I love the old school musclecars and their styling, I'd jump into a new Mondeo in an instant. The quality, fit, finish, mileage, appearance... it's all going to be so fresh and new to Americans.
The whole game is going to change in a year - you mark my words.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Oh, I'm more than a little aware of the caliber of cars Ford is bringing over next year. I'm also aware that Ford is taking no prisoners in quality levels in these cars. They are aiming to slam Toyota, and they are already matching Toyota quality with their current crop of vehicles....and Euro cars are even better!
What is also going to surprize others is that the next Mustang (at least in the interior) is supposed to be a big jump over the current Mustang interior in quality of materials and design. Save the live axle, Ford doesn't intend to give any quarter to the Camaro. The new one is expected to be considerably quicker (though still limited to 155 mph top speed.... it doesn't have the tank-like chassis....or tank-like weight... of the Camaro and Challenger).
Challenger is great for what it is, and i think it will do well against (but certainly not beat in sales) the Mustang and Camaro.
What is also going to surprize others is that the next Mustang (at least in the interior) is supposed to be a big jump over the current Mustang interior in quality of materials and design. Save the live axle, Ford doesn't intend to give any quarter to the Camaro. The new one is expected to be considerably quicker (though still limited to 155 mph top speed.... it doesn't have the tank-like chassis....or tank-like weight... of the Camaro and Challenger).
Challenger is great for what it is, and i think it will do well against (but certainly not beat in sales) the Mustang and Camaro.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,400
From: Michigan's left coast
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
But if the car was really only supposed to have a V6, then I'm glad it's dead!
I can't wait for GM to try and convince luxury buyers that Cadillac is a real competitor when all of it's cars feature the same corporate V6 that you can find in a Chevrolet or Pontiac (with the same level of power none the less)
Bring in the corporate platforms and V6s!!!! It's time for Cadillac to 'know it's role' and join Lincoln in the also ran category. Good plan GM!!!!
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
GM's divisions need complete line ups to be taken seriously.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
According to my sources, pretty much shutting down and handing the reins to GME.
I know, it's sad. Talk about defeatist. GM is right there in the dictionary.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
I think the rumor before was the Vette was going smaller, Kappa sized.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
If it's any small consolation, the Dodge Challenger is off to a very strong start. It's likely already the 2nd best selling sports coupe in the US. It's selling at almost a 33% rate as the Mustang did for the month of July. That alone is a pretty stunning feat. It's certain to meet Chrysler's target of 30,000 annual sales, and stands at least even money of exceeding it.
If that alone isn't enough, the core buyers so far seem to be people who never considered a Chrysler vehicle who bought the Challenger because of it's looks. It seems that although there are Mopar fans buying the new Challenger, they are so minute in number that they aren't driving the car's sales.
If a Challenger does this well with $4 per gallon gas with the few Dodge dealers around, I think the far greater numbers of Chevy dealers will be able to move a hella lot more Camaros than that.
I'm thinking we'll all be pretty surprized.
If that alone isn't enough, the core buyers so far seem to be people who never considered a Chrysler vehicle who bought the Challenger because of it's looks. It seems that although there are Mopar fans buying the new Challenger, they are so minute in number that they aren't driving the car's sales.
If a Challenger does this well with $4 per gallon gas with the few Dodge dealers around, I think the far greater numbers of Chevy dealers will be able to move a hella lot more Camaros than that.
I'm thinking we'll all be pretty surprized.
If Detroit could put that kind of energy and spirit into ALL of its cars, we'd see a much healthier industry. But alas, we get Korean-esque, bland stuff like the Cruze which will probably sell but not in the volume that it COULD if GM would sweat the details a bit better.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
From: NC
Be careful my friend.
1 month does NOT predict a 12-month trend.
Just ask Ford, GM, and Dodge about their 1-month truck sales from November 2007 then compare it to the last 8 months.
Challenger is a NEW car, one that has been enjoying press-hype for 18 months, it's just been all over the cover of every car mag and toilet rag in the last 2 months, it's been in newspapers and on the show circuits. It's been on TV car shows and even the news. Now. people can finally put a hand on one and are reacting to the buildup. I doubt seriously if we see such a wide-spread blitz about this car a year from now, and when the flurry of new cars from Ford and GM starts to hit in late 09 it will put that much more pressure on the market. The new Mustang and Camaro will both debut next year, putting major pressure specifically in that 2-door market too.
In short, I think they better enjoy it while they got it, cause I don't think the party is going to last. Sorry for the bleak outlook, just sharing my opinion. I personally know the caliber of cars that are coming over from Europe, and as much as I love the old school musclecars and their styling, I'd jump into a new Mondeo in an instant. The quality, fit, finish, mileage, appearance... it's all going to be so fresh and new to Americans.
The whole game is going to change in a year - you mark my words.
1 month does NOT predict a 12-month trend.
Just ask Ford, GM, and Dodge about their 1-month truck sales from November 2007 then compare it to the last 8 months.
Challenger is a NEW car, one that has been enjoying press-hype for 18 months, it's just been all over the cover of every car mag and toilet rag in the last 2 months, it's been in newspapers and on the show circuits. It's been on TV car shows and even the news. Now. people can finally put a hand on one and are reacting to the buildup. I doubt seriously if we see such a wide-spread blitz about this car a year from now, and when the flurry of new cars from Ford and GM starts to hit in late 09 it will put that much more pressure on the market. The new Mustang and Camaro will both debut next year, putting major pressure specifically in that 2-door market too.
In short, I think they better enjoy it while they got it, cause I don't think the party is going to last. Sorry for the bleak outlook, just sharing my opinion. I personally know the caliber of cars that are coming over from Europe, and as much as I love the old school musclecars and their styling, I'd jump into a new Mondeo in an instant. The quality, fit, finish, mileage, appearance... it's all going to be so fresh and new to Americans.
The whole game is going to change in a year - you mark my words.
Then explain away the sales of the Mustang.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Maybe Cadillac can attack that segment later.
Alpha however, could not be more critical for Cadillac - NOW.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
I'm sure it will be a fine car if what you're looking for is a larger, American ES350 with optional AWD. Or a larger Volvo S80. Or a more modern DTS.
At least Cadillac will still have RWD. But they need three sizes of RWD for a complete lineup, even if the big one is just a stretch of the medium one, or a luxed out version of the Holden.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,132
From: Santa Clara, CA
I hadn't heard that rumor. The current one is already at the high end of 5/E/M/GS weight. They'll need the Alpha more than ever. Let's hope GM has the money to build one and do it right. [ where's the crossed fingers smiley? ]