Z28 Wilson, I'd guess that the F150 does have the strongest truck frame on the market. The ridgeline combines its 'truck frame' with a 'car frame' though... which overall creates the stiffest chassis on a truck to date (at least according to Honda)

Did you read the above? How are trucks being judged by most consumers test driving them these days? 0-60/performance, ride comfort, quietness, build quality, material quality, luxury features, etc.

 

no, a unibody is not stiffer than a hydroformed rail chassis.

 

You have any numbers on that? Natural resonant frequencies, bending/torsional rigidity, etc?

Not arguing since you'd know better than I would, but I just can't see why if that were the case, high end cars wouldn't be using rail chassis setups unless for the weight savings potential?

 

You are correct in that one reason they don't use hydroformed rails is for both weight and packaging...also cost.

 

I personally would just buy an avalanche. Pretty similar but it's a real truck and if I want a truck then I want a truck. Plus it's GM. I prefer GM and I don't go with the "honda is god" think that a lot of people seem to be like when the word "quality" is brought up. I don't want an attemp at a truck from a company that has speciallized primarily in cheap economy cars pretty much all it's life until fairly recently. If hummer comes out with a sports car I probably wouldn't buy that either.

 

To make sense of the point, you have to understand that "stiffness" is kind of a general term.

If you have the opportunity to consider all loads as holistic load cases (meaning that all the loads a given structure sees are distributed to a large area of the structure), then a case can be made that unibodies are stiffer.

The problem is that vehicles in general, and trucks in particular, are subject to loads that cannot be distributed to all points of the structure.

In a unibody, this is a difficult problem because of crippling and buckling. An example would be the standing on a pop can trick... the can does fine and can support your weight as long as the load is spread over the entire structure... the millisecond a friend flicks the side of the can with a finger and slightly deforms it, it collapses.

Trucks tow, they get large suspension inputs (far greater than cars see), they get twisted around, etc...

Furthermore, you need to understand that while it may not seem like it, the bed and cab on a truck DO contribute significantly to the structure.

Take a look at most cars... look at how the heavy parts of most cars are carried - a subframe. The F4's had a subframe up front to hold the motor.

Now, I'll leave you with this:

Look at the structure for a Corvette. Massive frame rails, that structural hoop, all kinds of first-class engineering. When GM wanted the Corvette super-stiff and ultra-light, what did they do?

That's right... a frame. It's a space-frame, but it's a frame... and it is most assuredly not a unibody.

 

Sorry I didn't read all the posts in this thread but in case it hasn't been said yet...

If I were to buy a sports car, I would want it to perform and feel like the best sports car it could be.

If I were to buy a luxury sedan, I would want it to perform and feel like the best luxury sedan it could be.

If I were to buy a truck, I would want it to perform and feel like the best truck it could be.

Which is why I would never buy a luxury pickup truck, an El Camino, or any other half breeds etc.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when people buy f-bodies and sell them a year or two later because they don't get the same fuel economy as their sister or girlfriend's Honda Civic. WTF were you thinking when you bought a 300+hp V8?!?!? Obviously its not going to get 40mpg just like that civic is not going to run 12s stock.

Buying a truck and wanting it to drive like a car is just plain stupid.

 

Its ugly plain and simple. I bought a Colorado with the 5 cyl in it and I love it. Most people are scared of the 5 cylinder deal, but C&D ranked it most reliable out of other trucks in its class. The problem with a ridgeline, tacoma, tundra, frontier, or titan is that there not American. I don't care if they are made in America, or not, when you buy one you are buying from a company that is from another country. I was always taught to buy American. I love my country and thank god for GM making the quality cars and trucks they do, I never have to look anywhere else when buying a new vehicle.

 

It's useless to argue with anyone whose "engineering" knowledge comes from regurgutating advertising buzzwords, rather than many years in college getting a real degree.

I have an engineering degree . . . and I do advertising. I know how stats can be twisted. For rigidity, HOW did they measure? WHERE? Is it the same as previous? Different? Is it best case? Do they use the words "up to?" Are they measuring the right thing? Does it matter?

Does anyone with any technical knowledge really BELIEVE these multi-generational, 100%, 200%, 400% increases in stiffness? It seems that trucks in the 80s must have had frames made out of aluminum foil.

 

Back to the subject of bias in the media...
The media is never biased towards anything.

Missing Persons on Dateline NBC

Apparently, the media at-large not only biases car reviews and coverage towards imports, but apparently they are biased towards young blonde females too.
I was pretty taken back when I read this column, and worst of all - I think they have a good point.

Let's face it... trash, sex, blood, and conflict are what sells.
Truth comes in second place.
GM and Ford are on the right track with their quality these days, but it will take word of mouth, rental drives, and pure exposure to fix their image in the eye of the general public. The press at large is not going to be their salvation in getting the word out.

I submit again to GM and Lutz for taking a stance against the media last spring.

 

I know about 15 people who bought NEW trucks in the last three years. Ride comfort, quietness, and luxury features where non factors. I think this is something Honda made up for them to feel better about thier truck.

Nissian got it right.

 

Lets clear up this "car frame" talk a lil bit. There is no one car frame. There are a pair of frame sections blended into the floorpan at each end to mount the suspension, cradle, towing whatnots... ect..

There is a pinch rail going from front to back where the layers of the rocker panel and floorpan are pinched and welded together that we commonly call the unibody rail, but all in all cars of today do not sit on "A car frame." Just so no one gets confused and think unibody cars have a frame like a truck does.

 

That was never said. It was said that frame construction is stiffer then unibody.

 

Its also been thrown out like "carlike frame and a truck frame"

I didnt want anyone thinking of a truck body sitting on a pair of frame rails that are sitting on ANOTHER set of frame rails. Just so no one gets the wrong idea.