hell, i like rebates, too, but the bottom line is that 'perception is reality' for non GM-loyalist buyers...and the perception is "our cars are not strong enough to stand on their own, so for the dealers to even move them off the lots, we'll bundle them off with some vehicles that actually do sell"

it's sacraficing long-term vision and prosperity for short-term gain...the problem is when (if that time ever comes) GM builds great, dazzling products that actually DO stand on their own merit, and warrant a non-rebate price, the public will avoid them like the plague, expecting the deals and discounts that have accompanied GM cars of the past...

 

I agree to a point, but there are other factors to consider:

1) All the rebate stuff came into play, because GM stepped up to the plate after Sept 11th to help keep the economy moving. A very stand up thing to do, and it was even requested by the Preisdent that GM help by doing something along these lines.

2) Now that the rebates are there, a lot of people won't buy a new car without a nice rebate... they are expected to be there. Check the GTO as a perfect example. The car is moving pretty well now with rebates, even though the 05 has more power and is right around the corner, and we are headed into the winter season.

3) It's not only GM that is offering the rebates... other mfg's are too... so it's not that bad... and Cadillac has even managed to stay pretty much out of the rebate game, so GM has done their homework, IMO...

 

They put on rebates because they couldn't sell cars. As far as patriotism, GM would have sold thousands of Oshawa, Ontario produced W-bodies to Saddam Hussein (post-September 11th) if it hadn't been for that darned embargo.


Raise the price...raise the rebate....raise the price....raise the rebate...

Even with the rebates, there are really very few deals out there at GM.


Cadillac's out of the incentive game? That's why I keep seeing ads for $10k off DeVilles, $10k off Escalades and even $5K off you average CTS. Darth Xed, it must be fun living in fantasy land.

 

thats not really a fair statement.
right now, GM sells 1000s of cars to (picks random country) Italy.

if 6 months from now, we're at war with Italy, you could hardly hold GM responcable for that.

 

Local Caddy dealer has 13k off, but i don't know on what models. Probably the Escalades.

I can't complain about rebates/incentives if at the end of the day, it leaves more money in my pocket.

 

Do you ever research before you post?

2004 Cadillac rebates:
CTS $0
CTS-V $0
Deville $1000
Escalade $1000
Escalade ESV $0
Escalade EXT $0
Seville SLS $1000
SRX V-6 $1500
SRX V-8 $1500
XLR $0

2005 Cadillac rebates:
CTS $0
CTS-V $0
Deville $0
Escalade $1000
Escalade ESV $1000
Escalade EXT $1000
Seville SLS-discontinued
SRX V-6 $0
SRX V-8 $0
XLR $0
STS $0

I got all of this info off of GM Buy Power
What really suprised me is that GM is giving only $1000 rebate on the lame duck and discontinued Seville. There are no 10K rebates on Escalades or Devilles. And there isn't a 5K rebate on a CTS.

GM has no control if the Cadillac dealers sell their cars at 10K off sticker price. Most of the time I have realized is that the dealer will lure you in with a newspaper advertisement for $10,000 off an Escalade. There will be ONE Escalade at their advertised price, and usually its the lime green one that nobody wants and has been sitting on their lot forever. But once again, the dealers can't afford to sell all the Escalades at $10,000 off msrp without a GM rebate.

 

OK, you are just wrong... but that is nothing new, right? Did you miss the part about the President of the United States calling GM and asking them to do this? Also, it is just a coincidence that they started after 9/11?


So, then, if that is the case, then fine. Look at it that way. Then, they are getting full dollar for their vehicles from this point of view, eh?!?!?



OK, being the genius you are, take a look at GM's rebates:

http://www.gm.com/automotive/vehicle...sumer_IOU.html

Now, tell me again what this fantasy world I am in is?!?!

I swear, if you ever post one point based in fact, I'll drop dead right then and there.

 

Just thought this was funny

 

High five Darth

 

Actually, according to recent articles in Automotive News, Honda and Toyota have taken steps (i.e. made rules) to prevent dealers from using phrases like "Below Invoice Price" and "Clearance" (other than at the end of the year) among other restrictions because they feel that it cheapens their image.

Some luxury car manufacturers (Europeans mostly) do not always have rebates, but sometimes give high incentives to dealers to sell the cars (so they can give great deals w/o rebates or pocket the money as long as they move the cars). This is to prevent the cheapening of their image. It looks like Cadillac may be doing something similar, but it doesn't help their image if the dealers are running full page ads with "$13,000 OFF!!" plastered all over them.

The Domestic auto industry is following the Furniture chains it seems.. Everything is SALE! SALE! SALE! "BEST SALE OF ALL TIME - NEVER TO BE REPEATED!!! Which of course somehow manages to get repeated every two weeks.

BTW, for all those that think the rebates are giving you "A Great Deal" then just try and trade it in after 3 years. That $5,000 comes off of both ends, and it's more painful when the "Deal" car you got cost $2,000 less than a Honda which 3 years later has a comparable resale value of $3,000 more.

 

Well, leasing can avoid this effect to a degree. You don't have to worry about selling the car afterwards. Yes, I know, residual value would come into play... but, I can tell you from shopping for my Monte Carlo SS 2 years ago, when I got a $2500 rebate on it, I looked at several other cars from a variety of manufacturers (first time in my life I even looked outside GM) and the ONLY car that had a higher residual when you compared it to the MSRP was the BMW 3-series (a 330Ci) and even that, when you look at the percentage of sticker, was about a $1500-$2000 difference... the kicker was, though, I got better equipment for the money (IMO) on the Monte SS vs the 330Ci... and the MOnte was $12k cheaper, and the MOnte was not Honda Civic sized!

In short, when I traded in my 2002 Monte on the 2004 GTO, the Monte had just shy of 30k miles on it... I had a decent scratch in the rear bumper, and the front fascia ground effect was actually torn about 2 inches from an incident with some ice that was in the wrong place... I also had two decent chips in the windshield... and I traded it in for $14000. The MSRP on this car was $26,300. I got a $2500 rebate, and I got about 9% off sticker. Add to that my $1000 or so from my GM card I put down on it, and I can't complain one bit about the resale value of the Monte. And that is not even attempting to sell it on my own.

 

Apparently, Darth Xed never heard of "deal cash." I personally can't get info on the amount of dealer cash/marketing support a car has on it. It no longer varies from region to region, but from dealer to dealer.

 

Even if GM gave the dealer 100% of the cost back of the car they sold... what the heck does that matter as far as perception of the brand, value to the customer or anything goes? No one would even know it was going on (including you, from your post above ), if that even matters!!

You are just all over the board on this, just HOPING to find one SHRED of something to cling to... it is LAUGHABLE!

 

Did you bother to negiotiate a "clean deal" on the GTO before throwing in you banged up Monte? I mean seriously, what was the actual trade difference between the GTO and the MC? Personally, I would always offload my old car/truck before I pick up the new one.

 

Yes, but thanks for caring.

I actually leased the GTO for a 2 year period of time. The base price was taken care of before the trade-in even came into play... I know you're reaching for something... anything... but you aren't going to find it.

Do to the fact that I do not have a third car (the GTP is my wife's car, and sicne we work at different locations, I need a car to drive to the office... therefore, trading in is the way I chose to go.

I don't like to go into financial specifics in open forums, but I'll make an exception...

I pay $229.83 per month on a 2 year / 24k mile lease on the GTO with a residual value of $21k or so at the end of the lease. I traded in the Monte, used $1183 of the equity in it to go toward the downpayment, first months payment, title, tags, and my GM Card rebate of $817 to make a round $2000 down. The GM CArd was also offering some bonus rebate at the time, so I got an additional $500 toward the GTO for a total of $2500 down. I also got a check back from the dealership in the amount of $2400 cash back that I put in the bank from extra equity left on the Monte after the remainder of the 5 year loan was paid off and the $817 was put toward the down payment as mentioned above..... (and before you blast me for having a 5 year loan on a car, I normally don't do that, but I had reasons for it at the time, including saving for a downpayment on our house we just built... )