Why the doom and gloom on these two famous marques? If GM eliminate these two brands, it would leave a huge hole, not only in GM's product lineup, but in loyalists hearts. I'm sure that if Toyota were offered either Buick or Pontiac (or both) they would resetablish these brands and successfully build on their heritage.

Buick's lineup has potential... it's design language definitely looks classy if Velite is any guide. LaCrosse is selling reasonably well and Lucerne is definitely a step in the right direction... until the new generation RWD vehicles come on stream. Expectations are also high for the Buick concept crossover due to debut at the NAIAS.

Pontiac is a brand that has always offered a logical alternative to Chevy although its probably been too close in some respects. The G6 is a stylish alternative to the mundane Camry/Accord and Solstice is an image machine (much like the GTO)... now all Pontiac needs is a G8 RWD vehicle...

All GM need to do is offer each brand an image leading RWD machine and all of a sudden GM is kicking goals again. I hope GM give each brand a real chance before they decide on any drastic measures.

 

Well, to me, Buick looks like it's consolidating and would be pretty easy to knock off. Considering the Lucerne and Lacrosse replaced 4 cars right? I see potential, but the question is, does the General and will they care enough to start seeing Buick through and pull a "Caddy" with them?

 

Take over a brand? Toyota would never do this. How would that work. The new Toyota buick??

Toyota Lucerne?

Besides they have the Avalon and Camry. Those are plenty boring.

I'd hate to see Pontiac go. If it did I would suspect that Chevy would have to take up some slack.

 

Why the doom and gloom SSbaby?

The things aren't selling.

Unless GM does a turnaround with these brands that they did with Cadillac (and fast!), the hole left by their departure will be very small.

 

I think the question is, does GM have the funds to see Buick through? Probably not.

 

Yeah, that was just a hypothetical.

What I was attempting to add is that both Buick and Pontiac have too much brand equity for GM to let them fail.

I guess my question was answered in a couple of posts... it appears that GM needs to dig deep into their 'savings' if they want to rescue both marques.

 

GM would be money ahead to let Pontiac and Buick fly away from GM. Let them be their own companies again. Allow assests and everything to be tied together. Only way to save them IMO.

 

My take on Buick:
Lucerne, Nailed the look, just maybe a little small inside for Buick's big Halo car.
Lacrosse, Buick's version of a Camry, just add spoiler...bland, out classed by the old Regal easily, especially the GS.
Rendezvous, I like it, it's a classy "individual", not cookie cut...clean and fresh looking.
Rainier, a Buick/Explorer, dated looking...remake it by combining the Rendezvous and Terraza.
Terraza, is it a minivan or SUV? Give Rainier the front end and drop the minivan. They are more low end practical vehicles, fitting Chevy or perhaps Pontiac.
Add the Velite, roadster type coupe, a grown up Solstice...hard-top and convertible.

 

Pontiac needs powerful sporty cars with manuals offered.

When is the last time Pontiac's low end car had class leading Power? The Sunfire or Grand Am never offered what pontiac needed. G6 is a nice car but lacks the Supercharger and AWD that the Concept had. Acuras look sportier that Pontiacs.


..I won't even go into Pontiac having a minivan, but no firebird.

The Solstice and GTO are rays of hope.

 

They are consolidating the dealerships, and marketing the "GM" brand over each divisions' brandname. They probably won't pull an Oldsmobile and kill another brand, but I can see Buick being reduced to one or two cars (no SUV, Minivan, etc) until all the remaining buyers die off. And Pontiac being reduced to a few carefully positioned sporty cars rather than pretending to be a full-service competitor of Honda or Toyota.

 

They need more sporty content, but I think they are doing a little better on the manual transmission front.

 

Some thoughts..... (and by the way.....these are my ramblings and has nothing to do with the position of the company that I work for....)

It is not easy to just make a Division go away. There are dealer bodies to consider. You just don't send them a letter and say "oh...by the way.....we're done!" Far from it. The Sales and Service Agreement is a binding contract...and when a Division goes away, the price tag to the manufacturer is HUGE. There are also the loyal buyers out there that need to be considered.

It is 2005--soon to be 2006. The world has changed. Those Divisions have changed.......and there are many changes coming for them so that they will be here long term. It's wonderful and fun to walk down memory lane and say "wow...wasn't the Grand National a great car?" And believe me, it would be wonderful to have a new one. That said....does GM have the resources to have a Buick for everyone? I don't think so. Pontiac and Buick will have to pare down their offerings ...and they cannot have products in the future that compete with each other......or, for that matter, with the other Divisions. Now.......that said, it is nearly impossible to have products across the board that won't compete with each other.

Just some things to think about.

 

Furthermore, I've been a Pontiac owner my entire life. My very first car was an '93 Grand Am GT sedan. I also currently own an '99 SE Grand Am coupe. My most recent purchase was for an '06 Pontiac Solstice.

As you can see, no other division really has anything I'd consider owning. Furthermore, when the Solstice is paid off, I'll be looking at probably the GTO or other performance bargain the company has to offer, including another Solstice

 

What does this mean for GMC?
There's obviously some redundance in the Truck/SUV market...or can that market support it?
I think Buick has always meant Value & Elegance, and sometimes Fast with Class. And has appealed to people wanting a reliable, uncramped, comfortable ride. That's not to say they don't want some power, even older women's eyes light up when they mash the throttle and start pulling ahead of everybody.
Guess we'll have to trust the demographic researchers to ask the right questions, about who there target base is, and what vehicles they prefer, and why.
Buick = Value & Elegance (Leave Cutting-edge Luxury to Cadillac)
Pontiac = Excitement, exciting looks and performance.

 

Well, GMC has always made a business case. Who said before that it was one of the best selling brands (probably because it's generally the same Chevy only with a higher price tag). Of course, with the general decline of that market continuing now...we'll have to see how it holds up.