Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Disciple
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,479
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by Pasky
Gone in my eyes, don't really care what happens outside the US.
I found this line very interesting w.r.t. how the shuffle was initiated.
"Bob felt he needed to devote his efforts to product development full-time, and I agreed," Wagoner said.
Last edited by poSSum; Apr 4, 2005 at 01:03 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by Pasky
Woo hoo! Bout damn time that ***** got off the gold chair. I think it may be too late, but at least that bafoon is gone.
Originally Posted by Pasky
Gone in my eyes, don't really care what happens outside the US.
Originally Posted by Pasky
Thats exactly what we need isn't it? A holden car...
.
Sorry but ZETA was cancelled, thank Bob for it.
.Sorry but ZETA was cancelled, thank Bob for it.
1. Bob Lutz is taking over Global. In case you missed that part of the sentence, that means he's in charge of cordinating ALL GM products in the entire world. This includes the US.
2. Rick Wagoner is taking over day to day operations. Bob Lutz has had to deal with so many assinine and stupid issues, that he hasn't been able to focus on the job he's suppose to be doing. Case in point: After the Corvette was done, before it reach production, someone got the idea & had the power to assign a cheaper quality material to the Vette's interior. Bob Lutz had to intervene to get things back on track. A similar situation happened with the Cobalt. There is no reason on the plant a Vice Chairman of GM has to run around putting out fires that shouldn't have been started anyway. With the CEO taking the role, people are going to think twice before changing things that take away from product quality.
3. In case you have been playing in the fast lane of the freeway and got bounced on the head a few times, it's HOLDEN that's giving us the basis of the next Camaro replacement! It's also HOLDEN that's going to be doing a lot of work and supplying alot of the pieces of future GM rear drive cars. Cars we wouldn't have if Bob Lutz didn't start pushing for it at GM the way he started pushing for it at Chrysler.
So before you start opening your piehole in the future and start flaming or bashing people, you really need to take the time to at least have an elementry and basic idea of what you are talking about. This isn't the "Lounge" where you can flame away without knowing anything about what you are saying. There are quite a few people here (roughly 90% or more) that either work in the business at some level, or are very much on top of what's going on.
Just some advice.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by guionM
Pasky, you are the one who is coming across as a bafoon here. It seems you don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about, your reading comprehension seems to be below a 4th grade level, and you also know zip about GM operations or Bob Lutz and his position.
1. Bob Lutz is taking over Global. In case you missed that part of the sentence, that means he's in charge of cordinating ALL GM products in the entire world. This includes the US.
2. Rick Wagoner is taking over day to day operations. Bob Lutz has had to deal with so many assinine and stupid issues, that he hasn't been able to focus on the job he's suppose to be doing. Case in point: After the Corvette was done, before it reach production, someone got the idea & had the power to assign a cheaper quality material to the Vette's interior. Bob Lutz had to intervene to get things back on track. A similar situation happened with the Cobalt. There is no reason on the plant a Vice Chairman of GM has to run around putting out fires that shouldn't have been started anyway. With the CEO taking the role, people are going to think twice before changing things that take away from product quality.
3. In case you have been playing in the fast lane of the freeway and got bounced on the head a few times, it's HOLDEN that's giving us the basis of the next Camaro replacement! It's also HOLDEN that's going to be doing a lot of work and supplying alot of the pieces of future GM rear drive cars. Cars we wouldn't have if Bob Lutz didn't start pushing for it at GM the way he started pushing for it at Chrysler.
So before you start opening your piehole in the future and start flaming or bashing people, you really need to take the time to at least have an elementry and basic idea of what you are talking about. This isn't the "Lounge" where you can flame away without knowing anything about what you are saying. There are quite a few people here (roughly 90% or more) that either work in the business at some level, or are very much on top of what's going on.
Just some advice.
1. Bob Lutz is taking over Global. In case you missed that part of the sentence, that means he's in charge of cordinating ALL GM products in the entire world. This includes the US.
2. Rick Wagoner is taking over day to day operations. Bob Lutz has had to deal with so many assinine and stupid issues, that he hasn't been able to focus on the job he's suppose to be doing. Case in point: After the Corvette was done, before it reach production, someone got the idea & had the power to assign a cheaper quality material to the Vette's interior. Bob Lutz had to intervene to get things back on track. A similar situation happened with the Cobalt. There is no reason on the plant a Vice Chairman of GM has to run around putting out fires that shouldn't have been started anyway. With the CEO taking the role, people are going to think twice before changing things that take away from product quality.
3. In case you have been playing in the fast lane of the freeway and got bounced on the head a few times, it's HOLDEN that's giving us the basis of the next Camaro replacement! It's also HOLDEN that's going to be doing a lot of work and supplying alot of the pieces of future GM rear drive cars. Cars we wouldn't have if Bob Lutz didn't start pushing for it at GM the way he started pushing for it at Chrysler.
So before you start opening your piehole in the future and start flaming or bashing people, you really need to take the time to at least have an elementry and basic idea of what you are talking about. This isn't the "Lounge" where you can flame away without knowing anything about what you are saying. There are quite a few people here (roughly 90% or more) that either work in the business at some level, or are very much on top of what's going on.
Just some advice.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 483
From: Far, far away
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by guionM
Pasky, you are the one who is coming across as a bafoon here. It seems you don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about, your reading comprehension seems to be below a 4th grade level, and you also know zip about GM operations or Bob Lutz and his position.
1. Bob Lutz is taking over Global. In case you missed that part of the sentence, that means he's in charge of cordinating ALL GM products in the entire world. This includes the US.
2. Rick Wagoner is taking over day to day operations. Bob Lutz has had to deal with so many assinine and stupid issues, that he hasn't been able to focus on the job he's suppose to be doing. Case in point: After the Corvette was done, before it reach production, someone got the idea & had the power to assign a cheaper quality material to the Vette's interior. Bob Lutz had to intervene to get things back on track. A similar situation happened with the Cobalt. There is no reason on the plant a Vice Chairman of GM has to run around putting out fires that shouldn't have been started anyway. With the CEO taking the role, people are going to think twice before changing things that take away from product quality.
3. In case you have been playing in the fast lane of the freeway and got bounced on the head a few times, it's HOLDEN that's giving us the basis of the next Camaro replacement! It's also HOLDEN that's going to be doing a lot of work and supplying alot of the pieces of future GM rear drive cars. Cars we wouldn't have if Bob Lutz didn't start pushing for it at GM the way he started pushing for it at Chrysler.
So before you start opening your piehole in the future and start flaming or bashing people, you really need to take the time to at least have an elementry and basic idea of what you are talking about. This isn't the "Lounge" where you can flame away without knowing anything about what you are saying. There are quite a few people here (roughly 90% or more) that either work in the business at some level, or are very much on top of what's going on.
Just some advice.
1. Bob Lutz is taking over Global. In case you missed that part of the sentence, that means he's in charge of cordinating ALL GM products in the entire world. This includes the US.
2. Rick Wagoner is taking over day to day operations. Bob Lutz has had to deal with so many assinine and stupid issues, that he hasn't been able to focus on the job he's suppose to be doing. Case in point: After the Corvette was done, before it reach production, someone got the idea & had the power to assign a cheaper quality material to the Vette's interior. Bob Lutz had to intervene to get things back on track. A similar situation happened with the Cobalt. There is no reason on the plant a Vice Chairman of GM has to run around putting out fires that shouldn't have been started anyway. With the CEO taking the role, people are going to think twice before changing things that take away from product quality.
3. In case you have been playing in the fast lane of the freeway and got bounced on the head a few times, it's HOLDEN that's giving us the basis of the next Camaro replacement! It's also HOLDEN that's going to be doing a lot of work and supplying alot of the pieces of future GM rear drive cars. Cars we wouldn't have if Bob Lutz didn't start pushing for it at GM the way he started pushing for it at Chrysler.
So before you start opening your piehole in the future and start flaming or bashing people, you really need to take the time to at least have an elementry and basic idea of what you are talking about. This isn't the "Lounge" where you can flame away without knowing anything about what you are saying. There are quite a few people here (roughly 90% or more) that either work in the business at some level, or are very much on top of what's going on.
Just some advice.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 826
From: No where
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by Ken S
you all really hate Lutz that much? I think GM would have be in far worse shape without him..
No revived Cadillac division
No GTO
No Solstice and Saturn Sky
No Lacrosse
No G6
No Cobalt
No Trailblazer SS or SS models
Yeah, It could be worse.
Last edited by NikiVee; Apr 4, 2005 at 01:39 PM.
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Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,547
From: Panhandle of West Virginia
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
CNN has a different view of the sunny sides issued inthis thread:
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - General Motors Corp., trying to stem problems that have hit its stock price and share of the U.S. market, shook up top management Monday to give day-to-day responsibility of its core North American unit to CEO Rick Wagoner.
GM (Research) Vice Chairman Bob Lutz and Group Vice President Gary Cowger, who had been in charge of GM North America, will now focus full time on global responsibilities, the world's largest automaker announced.
"Given the challenges we face in North America, it makes sense for me to assume control of GM North America's day-to-day operations and shorten the lines of communication and decision-making," Wagoner said in a statement.
Shares of Dow component GM sank about 1 percent Monday. Overall, the shares are down about 40 percent from year-ago levels.
One analyst saw the moves as a sign that a recent spate of bad news has GM management jittery.
"I suspect that Wagoner is under a lot of pressure from the board to turn things around. To me it seems the company is in crisis mode," said David Healy, analyst with Burnham Securities.
Healy said that while GM has problems with its North American cost structure, he's not sure these moves are the way to improve results there.
"It's not a good sign when you transfer two of your most highly respected and able executives," he said.
Spate of bad news
GM announced last month that it would see a first-quarter loss of about $1.50 a share, rather than the 3-cent-a-share loss forecast by analysts at the time of the announcement. On Friday, its March figures put first-quarter U.S. sales down 5.2 percent compared with a year earlier, dropping its U.S. market share to 25.7 percent from 27 percent.
GM spokesman Brian Akre denied the management move is a result of crisis management and makes sense given the amount of attention Wagoner was already spending on North American operations.
"Any CEO of a large company is typically dealing with the pressing problems facing the company," he said. Akre said the reorganization of GM's European operations are going well, while Asia-Pacific and Latin America are also not the pressing problems for the company.
"We have four regions and three of our four regions are operating at target or ahead of targets," he said. "It's natural your focus is going to shift where the problems are."
Even with its global operations, GM's North American operations are the key unit for the company. In 2004 North America's auto operations accounted for 71 percent of auto revenue and 59 percent of company revenue overall.
Operating earnings from continuing operations in North America of $1.3 billion basically balanced out a slightly larger loss in Europe and allowed GM to post a narrow profit in its auto unit last year.
But those results will clearly not be repeated this year as the company admitted that continued downward pressure on car prices and rising costs in North America, especially health care expenses for both employees and retirees, are causing losses.
Some observers expressed doubts that Monday's changes will help the company's woes.
"Don't look for big results. GM's current leadership is responsible for the woes at its North American operations. This is like moving around the chairs on the deck of the Titanic," said Peter Morici, business professor at the University of Maryland. He said that GM needs to address what he called GM's "bloated bureaucracy."
General Motors, Ford Motor Co. (Research) and DaimlerChrysler (Research) have been forced to use large cash-back offers and below-market financing to boost sales as overseas competitors, notably Toyota Motor Corp (Research)., have taken a growing share of the U.S. market.
GM largely stemmed market share losses in the first four years of this decade but saw its share of U.S. auto sales drop to 27.5 percent last year from 28.3 percent in 2003.
The Detroit automakers have been battling the public perception that their vehicles lag in quality and higher costs as well.
And while GM has closed some of the quality and productivity gap compared with Japanese automakers' U.S. plants, its older plants can't shift production as rapidly to respond to shifting demand. On top of it all, stiff competition has forced prices lower while all the automakers are paying more for steel, oil and other commodities.
New responsibilities
Lutz will now focus on GM's global product development activities, while Cowger's new role will be in charge of global manufacturing and labor. Wagoner's statement said that the new roles for Lutz and Cowger were not less important than their previous responsibilities for North American operations.
"With the ongoing globalization of GM's product development organization, and the implementation of our global architecture strategy, Bob felt he needed to devote his efforts to product development full time, and I agreed," Wagoner said in the statement. "Bob's legacy at GM will be in our future cars and trucks. It makes sense for him to devote his full energies to that critical task."
Wagoner signaled he would be seeking changes in the cost structure and labor deals, particularly health care costs in the United States.
Chrysler Group was reportedly granted millions of dollars in health care cost savings last month in a deal with the United Auto Workers union.
"One of our biggest challenges is our lack of cost-competitiveness in the United States, which is due to our legacy costs, especially the ever-increasing burden of high health-care expenses," Wagoner said. "Addressing this challenge in a fair and equitable way requires close work with our union partners, in addition to our ongoing work with government and health-care providers. Gary is the ideal person to do this."
GM spokesman Akre would not discuss what changes the company would be seeking from the union other than to say, "There are negotiations ongoing with the UAW."
A spokesman for the union could not immediately be reached for comment.
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - General Motors Corp., trying to stem problems that have hit its stock price and share of the U.S. market, shook up top management Monday to give day-to-day responsibility of its core North American unit to CEO Rick Wagoner.
GM (Research) Vice Chairman Bob Lutz and Group Vice President Gary Cowger, who had been in charge of GM North America, will now focus full time on global responsibilities, the world's largest automaker announced.
"Given the challenges we face in North America, it makes sense for me to assume control of GM North America's day-to-day operations and shorten the lines of communication and decision-making," Wagoner said in a statement.
Shares of Dow component GM sank about 1 percent Monday. Overall, the shares are down about 40 percent from year-ago levels.
One analyst saw the moves as a sign that a recent spate of bad news has GM management jittery.
"I suspect that Wagoner is under a lot of pressure from the board to turn things around. To me it seems the company is in crisis mode," said David Healy, analyst with Burnham Securities.
Healy said that while GM has problems with its North American cost structure, he's not sure these moves are the way to improve results there.
"It's not a good sign when you transfer two of your most highly respected and able executives," he said.
Spate of bad news
GM announced last month that it would see a first-quarter loss of about $1.50 a share, rather than the 3-cent-a-share loss forecast by analysts at the time of the announcement. On Friday, its March figures put first-quarter U.S. sales down 5.2 percent compared with a year earlier, dropping its U.S. market share to 25.7 percent from 27 percent.
GM spokesman Brian Akre denied the management move is a result of crisis management and makes sense given the amount of attention Wagoner was already spending on North American operations.
"Any CEO of a large company is typically dealing with the pressing problems facing the company," he said. Akre said the reorganization of GM's European operations are going well, while Asia-Pacific and Latin America are also not the pressing problems for the company.
"We have four regions and three of our four regions are operating at target or ahead of targets," he said. "It's natural your focus is going to shift where the problems are."
Even with its global operations, GM's North American operations are the key unit for the company. In 2004 North America's auto operations accounted for 71 percent of auto revenue and 59 percent of company revenue overall.
Operating earnings from continuing operations in North America of $1.3 billion basically balanced out a slightly larger loss in Europe and allowed GM to post a narrow profit in its auto unit last year.
But those results will clearly not be repeated this year as the company admitted that continued downward pressure on car prices and rising costs in North America, especially health care expenses for both employees and retirees, are causing losses.
Some observers expressed doubts that Monday's changes will help the company's woes.
"Don't look for big results. GM's current leadership is responsible for the woes at its North American operations. This is like moving around the chairs on the deck of the Titanic," said Peter Morici, business professor at the University of Maryland. He said that GM needs to address what he called GM's "bloated bureaucracy."
General Motors, Ford Motor Co. (Research) and DaimlerChrysler (Research) have been forced to use large cash-back offers and below-market financing to boost sales as overseas competitors, notably Toyota Motor Corp (Research)., have taken a growing share of the U.S. market.
GM largely stemmed market share losses in the first four years of this decade but saw its share of U.S. auto sales drop to 27.5 percent last year from 28.3 percent in 2003.
The Detroit automakers have been battling the public perception that their vehicles lag in quality and higher costs as well.
And while GM has closed some of the quality and productivity gap compared with Japanese automakers' U.S. plants, its older plants can't shift production as rapidly to respond to shifting demand. On top of it all, stiff competition has forced prices lower while all the automakers are paying more for steel, oil and other commodities.
New responsibilities
Lutz will now focus on GM's global product development activities, while Cowger's new role will be in charge of global manufacturing and labor. Wagoner's statement said that the new roles for Lutz and Cowger were not less important than their previous responsibilities for North American operations.
"With the ongoing globalization of GM's product development organization, and the implementation of our global architecture strategy, Bob felt he needed to devote his efforts to product development full time, and I agreed," Wagoner said in the statement. "Bob's legacy at GM will be in our future cars and trucks. It makes sense for him to devote his full energies to that critical task."
Wagoner signaled he would be seeking changes in the cost structure and labor deals, particularly health care costs in the United States.
Chrysler Group was reportedly granted millions of dollars in health care cost savings last month in a deal with the United Auto Workers union.
"One of our biggest challenges is our lack of cost-competitiveness in the United States, which is due to our legacy costs, especially the ever-increasing burden of high health-care expenses," Wagoner said. "Addressing this challenge in a fair and equitable way requires close work with our union partners, in addition to our ongoing work with government and health-care providers. Gary is the ideal person to do this."
GM spokesman Akre would not discuss what changes the company would be seeking from the union other than to say, "There are negotiations ongoing with the UAW."
A spokesman for the union could not immediately be reached for comment.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 413
From: Mannheim, Germany
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by krazzycowgirl
The Camaro was NEVER slated to the Zeda program. Go read Cheers & Gears website which is a GM forum.
I'm not trying to flame or argue so please don't take this the wrong way. I have been in some very lengthy discussions about a Zeta camaro vs other platform Camaros.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by scott9050
CNN has a different view of the sunny sides issued inthis thread:
[/b]
[/b]
It's not CNN, it's Peter Morici, some business professor at the University of Maryland. Apparently, he doesn't even make a living observing business let alone the car industry, so I don't put very much stock in his opinion on this. I suspect the average person here knows more about GM and it's problems in their little finger than he does.
So far, judging from people who actually keeps track of the auto industry, this move is all good from it's symbolism to the fact that the CEO is now directly involved with the day to day operations instead of having a few levels of management between him and whats actually going on.
Remember the old saying about teachers? Those that can do, those that can't, teach??
Last edited by guionM; Apr 4, 2005 at 06:58 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by guionM
It's not CNN, it's Peter Morici, some business professor at the University of Maryland. Apparently, he doesn't even make a living observing business let alone the car industry, so I don't put very much stock in his opinion on this. I suspect the average person here knows more about GM and it's problems in their little finger than he does.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 19
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
I think you have to hit the bottom before you can rise again... I think the next Camaro, in whatever form it takes, will be the phoenix of the ashes of what GM did wrong. They aren't going to come roaring back, necessarily, but with some of the new cars being offered, and the new changes in management, I have faith that GM will come through again. It might even be a good time to start investing in GM, and reap the rewards fifteen years from now.
The guys at work all argue with me, too. I might be misplacing my trust, but this company is something I'm willing to stick behind.
If the next Camaro is crap, I will still buy it. I will bitch and moan about how hard it is to change the spark plugs, how much I hate having to clean the inside bottom of the windshield, and how I can't seem to keep my ignition dry.
And I will love every minute of it.
The guys at work all argue with me, too. I might be misplacing my trust, but this company is something I'm willing to stick behind.
If the next Camaro is crap, I will still buy it. I will bitch and moan about how hard it is to change the spark plugs, how much I hate having to clean the inside bottom of the windshield, and how I can't seem to keep my ignition dry.
And I will love every minute of it.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 757
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by guionM
Pasky, you are the one who is coming across as a bafoon here. It seems you don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about, your reading comprehension seems to be below a 4th grade level, and you also know zip about GM operations or Bob Lutz and his position.
1. Bob Lutz is taking over Global. In case you missed that part of the sentence, that means he's in charge of cordinating ALL GM products in the entire world. This includes the US.
2. Rick Wagoner is taking over day to day operations. Bob Lutz has had to deal with so many assinine and stupid issues, that he hasn't been able to focus on the job he's suppose to be doing. Case in point: After the Corvette was done, before it reach production, someone got the idea & had the power to assign a cheaper quality material to the Vette's interior. Bob Lutz had to intervene to get things back on track. A similar situation happened with the Cobalt. There is no reason on the plant a Vice Chairman of GM has to run around putting out fires that shouldn't have been started anyway. With the CEO taking the role, people are going to think twice before changing things that take away from product quality.
3. In case you have been playing in the fast lane of the freeway and got bounced on the head a few times, it's HOLDEN that's giving us the basis of the next Camaro replacement! It's also HOLDEN that's going to be doing a lot of work and supplying alot of the pieces of future GM rear drive cars. Cars we wouldn't have if Bob Lutz didn't start pushing for it at GM the way he started pushing for it at Chrysler.
So before you start opening your piehole in the future and start flaming or bashing people, you really need to take the time to at least have an elementry and basic idea of what you are talking about. This isn't the "Lounge" where you can flame away without knowing anything about what you are saying. There are quite a few people here (roughly 90% or more) that either work in the business at some level, or are very much on top of what's going on.
Just some advice.
1. Bob Lutz is taking over Global. In case you missed that part of the sentence, that means he's in charge of cordinating ALL GM products in the entire world. This includes the US.
2. Rick Wagoner is taking over day to day operations. Bob Lutz has had to deal with so many assinine and stupid issues, that he hasn't been able to focus on the job he's suppose to be doing. Case in point: After the Corvette was done, before it reach production, someone got the idea & had the power to assign a cheaper quality material to the Vette's interior. Bob Lutz had to intervene to get things back on track. A similar situation happened with the Cobalt. There is no reason on the plant a Vice Chairman of GM has to run around putting out fires that shouldn't have been started anyway. With the CEO taking the role, people are going to think twice before changing things that take away from product quality.
3. In case you have been playing in the fast lane of the freeway and got bounced on the head a few times, it's HOLDEN that's giving us the basis of the next Camaro replacement! It's also HOLDEN that's going to be doing a lot of work and supplying alot of the pieces of future GM rear drive cars. Cars we wouldn't have if Bob Lutz didn't start pushing for it at GM the way he started pushing for it at Chrysler.
So before you start opening your piehole in the future and start flaming or bashing people, you really need to take the time to at least have an elementry and basic idea of what you are talking about. This isn't the "Lounge" where you can flame away without knowing anything about what you are saying. There are quite a few people here (roughly 90% or more) that either work in the business at some level, or are very much on top of what's going on.
Just some advice.
.
Last edited by dav305z; Apr 4, 2005 at 08:06 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 380
From: Gretna (Omaha), NE
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Lutz is and will still be the man who turns GM around... at least IMHO
BTW... ever heard of the ol saying buy low and sell high? maybe now would be the time to get in on some GM stock...
BTW... ever heard of the ol saying buy low and sell high? maybe now would be the time to get in on some GM stock...
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 413
From: Mannheim, Germany
Re: Bob Lutz gets demoted...
Originally Posted by guionM
3. In case you have been playing in the fast lane of the freeway and got bounced on the head a few times, it's HOLDEN that's giving us the basis of the next Camaro replacement! It's also HOLDEN that's going to be doing a lot of work and supplying alot of the pieces of future GM rear drive cars. Cars we wouldn't have if Bob Lutz didn't start pushing for it at GM the way he started pushing for it at Chrysler.
