You guys can declare that torque is basically meaningless in a 1/4 mile race and that HP is everything, but I am nowhere ready or willing or able to accept that. I am not saying that the STS-V will be as fast, or faster because there are too many factors such as tranny and rear gearing, torque and HP curves, but it seems to me that American car manufacturers like torque, and so does a 1/4 mile drag strip.

 

I wasnt trying to say torque is meaningless. The ability to make good torque throughout the rpm range is how a car makes good hp.

All I was trying to demonstrate was that there's more than one way to get the job done on the drag strip than the "American" big torquey V8 way.

 

Repair costs are absurd with new BMW's and their subframe - but people that are going to drop this much on one dont care.

It gets horrible fuel economy - but people that are going to buy this probably dont really care.

It has some incredible styling - and people that buy this care about that.

It has a lot of power and is VERY fast - and people that buy this care about that too.

And I think BMW has wronged the M series horribly with this car . The M series always was quiet, a different spoiler, a lower chin, and a little M badge. Much like the V series cadillacs or SMG Mercs.

I believe because of this we get to see BMW's true agenda. The M series is fast on paper and really powerful, but not as fast as it could be (the 500hp M6 on Top Gear drove round a course at the same time as a 360hp Aston, where'd the extra 140hp go???).

I bet 80% or more of the new M5 buyers wont even be able to drive the regular 5 series to its limit, and wont try their M5 (even people with this money wont risk destroying it). They'll buy it simply because its the best and most expensive 5 series, and now they can flaunt that to their neighbors cause everyone can SEE the difference and that theirs is the most expensive.

 

Torque is what gets you down the 1/4 mile, but you are not understanding what is being said here. Torque and horsepower are not independent of one other. Take two cars, with equal weight, and the horsepower rating is the indication to look at to see which on will be faster. Torque is not its own standalone engine rating; it is a reflection on how said horsepower is being generated in said engine. Let me ask you something? How many sanctioned racing bodies seperate there different leagues by torque rating? How many drag racing leagues seperate classes on tq per lb? None that I am aware of. An M5, which makes 38 more hp and is 150 lbs lighter, is going to be faster than an STS-V, unless for some reason it has a horrible torque curve and can't stay in its powerband (which is something I wouldn't count on; BMW engines seldom have a poor powerband.) Put an M5 engine in a z06, and at the very least it will be just as fast, unless for some reason the M5 engine weighs in at some ridiculous amount more than the LS7, which I also highly doubt.

 

The typical buyer of the M5 is looking for the best luxury sedan possible. The M5 is just that for anything under $180k.

The M5, fully loaded is around $93k. The STS-V fully loaded is supposedly going to be around $77k. When you are talking this price range the difference doesn't matter a whole lot.

The interior of the STS-V is nowhere near the quality of the M5. I also wanted SMG...not an automatic. IMHO SMG is much better then auto and for my needs better than stick. Stick vs. SMG is personal preference. There are a few people out there that have gotten an M5 with plans of selling it to get a manual version next year when they came out and some are deciding to not go manual now. The new SMG III is very refined.

The M5 was designed to go over 200 MPH. There are some questions as to if the M5 can actually do 205. However, given the care shown towards the small details such as the underside of the M5 I wouldn't doubt that we find that a delimited M5's can actually do 200 MPH.

The M5 will do 12.x in the 1/4. Not too shabby for a 2 ton car.

The build quality at Cadillac, while improved, still has a ways to go. I was expecting better quality out of my CTS-V in terms of build quality but it just isn't there. Don't take this the wrong way...GM has made huge strides with Cadillac but it still is not enough.

What does the M5 have that is better IMHO?
- Sound System
- HP
- RPM...that V10 will rev
- Tranny
- Engine
- Better Leather
- Better Seats
- Better Looking Interior (STS-V looks cheap in comparison)
- Color Options for Interior/Exterior
- Entry (no key needed)
- All Service is included
- Paddle Shifting (SMG III)
- Cooled Seats
- STS is an "old man's" car to me (can't shake the Caddy image)
- I felt the CTS-V was "rushed" with the rear-end problems and the extreme wheel hop. That was a major deciding factor in ruling out the STS-V for me.

Do I think the M5 is overpriced? Not one bit. Is a Porsche GT over priced? Not to a Porsche GT owner

Each of us purchases the car we want. To me the BMW M5 was my dream car and it is not within my reach. It did cost more then my first house but it is my dream car.

 

That was a single test on a specific track. I believe that the track that was tested was very well suited to the Aston. There are many other track times posted that show the opposite.

This is exactly what I am concerned about. I am considering not selling my CTS-V so I can drive it to work instead of my M5

 

This statement shouldn't be overlooked. Put an LS7 in an STS with an unserpassed interior and GM will sell 2000 a year at around $80-90.

 

Maybe not to you... but I doubt you're the typical buyer of these cars. They've done studies of the affluent. You might be surprised... how careful a lot of these folks are with spending their money. Millionares are a lot more frugal than a lot of people think they are. Plus they tend to be well-informed and fully understand concepts of marginal benefit vs. marginal cost. Why spend the extra $16k, just to get 2-3% more benefit? Eg, the latest JD Power initial quality survey has Cadillac a mere stone's throw below BMW in quality (104 vs 95 problems per 100 vehicles). BMW simply does not offer 'that much' more for the price premium demanded. And I for one am sick of the same old BMW 'signature' styling. And the indecipherable iDrive they continue to ram down buyers' throats. foo.

 

Perhaps a reflash of the PCM is in store for you when you pick yours up. Maybe 155 mph isn't enough? Although I imagine it will be awhile before anyone is doing M5 reflashes, and being that it is a Bimmer, I bet it will be an arm and a leg even for a simple reflash.

 

I am not...I completely understand.

RE Studies: If this is true then GM needs to do some more studies. A good friend of mine just purchased an SRX for his wife two months ago and is already complaining that the service is nowhere near the same service he gets from his Jag, Lexus or Mec dealers.

 

BMW just released an option to do this and keep your full warranty. It only raises the limit to something like 190 MPH which is the speed limit of the tires.

 

Damn, only 190.

 

http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

 

All that computerized **** like "modes" and stuff would make me nervous. More stuff to not work, then what?

 

M5 is sex on wheels.

But if i had my pick, i'd opt for the M6.