Must say, that 300-340hp mid-sized entry level based luxury sports sedan class is getting crowded. Infiniti G35, Lexus IS350, and now this new BMW 3-series. Cadillac as a major player is missing in this segment i think. Yeah, they've got the 400hp Ls2 CTS-V, but how about a 300-330hp v6 variant for those of us that don't have 50+k to toss in for a V-version.

I think the 210hp 2.8L base engine should be dropped alltogether, and the 255hp 3.6L positioned as the base engine. A higher output version with something north of 300 horses, should serve as the middle guy, and the 400hp Ls2 v8 would be the range-topper.

Currently, there's way to much of an output difference between the 255hp 3.6L and the 400hp Ls6/ls2. A 155hp difference. That's a biggy. I figured if BMW can offer a 400hp 4.0L v8 in the M3, and still make a business case for a 330hp Twin-turbo 3.0L 3-series as an affordable performance alternative, why can't Cadillac/GM?

So good news for BMW and BMW fans worldwide.

 

3.6L CTS is plenty for me (I'll prob get that is I dont get a C5), but if they want to compete with the other cars, it should be bumped up higher.

 

The HV can be bumped up to 3.8L. A 300HP version of that would be nice, but first a 350HP Northstar (Ultra) needs to come out.

 

Interesting, but I have more respect for Lexus' approach. They've got the IS350 which will be putting out 300hp naturally aspirated V6... the performance version they're working on is expected to be in the 350hp range using a hybrid electric setup; and will be simultanously improving the gas milage to that of a 4-cylinder econo car.

There is also talk of the potential of an IS500 (see my more recent post about the IS500 spotting) w/ a stroked 5.0L version of the new 4.6L going into the all new LS460 coming out next year. 400 horsepower is expected at a minimum.

It's not like Lexus to have an IS250, IS350, IS350 hybrid, and an IS500... that's way more drivetrains then they'd ever use simultanously... so I'd probably expect to a couple of cuts in that lineup... but the hybrid version is a for sure deal by now; as is the hybrid adaptation to almost every one of their GR-series V6 carrying Lexus and Toyota models that are on their way out (Camry, Highlander, ES, RX, Sienna, Avalon, 4Runner, etc)

 

They Twin Turbo charge the 3 series...and it only get an extra 72bhp?

Not very impressive...

 

*GM supercharged the 3.8 and got 40 horses over a N/A 3.8.
* Ford Supercharged the Cobra and got 70hp over N/A Cobra

Factory-boosted cars are different. They don't just strap a blower on. They drop compression, and make other nessesary changes to the engine so they can cope with the boost reliably. N/A engines on the other hand are built differently. So yes, this TT version has 72hp over the N/A version which has 255hp, but it isn't the same engine. The two are probably running on different internals and different tunes.

That and it is probably running conservative boost, and BMW probably wouldn't want it getting too close to the 400hp M3's output. Just somethings that they most likely took into consideration when setting a goal as far as output.

I think it's a lot capable than that. 330hp is pretty respectable.

 

I'm inclined to say that cars like the 2.8 liter base CTS, the 2.5 liter Lexus IS250 and the 2.5 liter BMW 325i shouldn't exist in North America.

Who wants an underpowered near-luxury car? So far, Infiniti's G35 is still the only car in this segment that offers decent power (280-298hp) as standard equipment.

 

And a twin-turbo six is cheaper than the upcoming M3 V8 how?

Really, really dumb.

 

Pretty much my reasoning. You've got 23k family sedans with 240-255hp v6's. A 30k luxury sedan deserves a bit more than 210-215hp. Which is why i find the 255hp 3.6L fitting as a base engine for the base CTS, with say a higher ouput (maybe bumbed upto 3.8 or so) version putting out 300+. It should be like that, atleast here in the US market.

 

Oddly enough, though... they are usually the best-selling models within their lineup. Axe those lower cost lower powered models and you might get some people to upgrade, but a lot of them are just going to go buy something else entirely.

 

As far as cost of engine, the BMW 4.0L M3 engine is basically the 500hp 5.0L v10 in the M5 with 2 less cylinders. Something tells me this 4.0 v8 is a very expensive engine. It probably employs a lot of fancy and expensive stuff to get to that 400hp output. Especially out of 4.0L. 100hp/lt. In the end, this TT 3.0L I-6 probably is cheaper. Who knows. Heck, it could perhaps be even cheaper than the 333hp N/A 3.2L in the E46 M3.

Even if it isn't, they probably did it as a perception thing. You don't want your lesser 335i having the same engine as your top of the line 3-series M. And of course, that whole 6cyl < 8cyl thing still puts the M3 in a class of its own when compared to the other 3-series cars.

I don't see it as dumb. Way i see it, they already had a 255hp 3.0L I-6 and a high-end 400hp 4.0L v8. A 330hp TT version of the 3.0 would be the perfect middle guy.

 

You don't get any arguement from me. Still, I'm the sort of person who thinks that GM should be able to find another 45hp+ in the 3.6 liter HFV6. The current engine used 87 octane. Don't tell me there isn't room for improvement.

You really have to wonder if Cadillac buyers are too cheap to buy "Premium?"

 

That's because they all charge a hefty premium for those higher output engines when they shouldn't. I'm saying that they should offer the 3.6 as standard for the price they'd charge for the 2.8L versions. Same for the BMW's and Lexus's. Make the higher output 6's standard on these lower models without raising the price. In this day and age, 240+hp v6's are standard on a lot of v6 equipped family sedans in the 23k price category. No good reason why a luxury sedan couldn't offer 255hp as a base engine without charging an extra arm and leg.

 

I'd say that all of those smalled engined near luxury cars might just ruin the image of the whole near-luxury class. For instance, after see the conservative-to-the-point-of-boring E90 3-series, I wonder if BMW might just lose some of its image in the next few years. After all, what makes the new $32K BMW 325i a performance car instead of an overpriced and underpowered ego massage device? I guess we're just supposed to take BMW's word on it.

 

I think most have the $$$ to afford premium, lol. And i agree in that there's a lot left in that 3.6. With the right tune, i don't think 300+ is out of the question at all. I think it is quite capable of that.

Keep the 255hp 87 octane version, but add a 300hp version with a more aggressive tune. That'd be nice. Even nicer would be that this higher-output 3.6 engine would also make for an excellent base engine on the STS. The 4.6L Northstar shold be bumbed upto 340-350 horses. I believe this should be the next step for Cadillac in establishing themselves as BMW's true equal.