"Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
"Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
Food for thought, or discussion....
Friday, February 03, 2006
Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout
Governments in Japan, Germany intervened to reduce risk of failure
by Ron Gettelfinger
Following the painful plant closings and job reductions announced by U.S. automakers, some people ask whether it's time for Uncle Sam to come to the rescue.
According to the Wall Street Journal, President Bush takes a "dim view of a government bailout of the struggling automakers."
"I would hope I wouldn't be asked to make that decision," he said. "Why don't we think about the best, not the worst?"
We agree: Let's think positively about an industry that employs nearly 1 million American manufacturing workers and supports the jobs and income of millions more.
Governments usually help
But President Bush and other federal policymakers must recognize that the foreign auto firms who are gaining market share in the United States did not succeed while their countries let "free markets" run their course. Japan, Germany, South Korea and other countries actively intervene to support their industries. Because they bought in early, there's less chance these governments will be forced to bail out companies later.
Some say it doesn't matter what happens to the traditional Big Three, because America still has plenty of auto jobs. The jobs are just shifting, the story goes, away from Ford, General Motors and DaimlerChrysler and toward Honda, Nissan and Toyota.
In fact, the United States has lost nearly 200,000 auto jobs in the past five years -- and behind these numbers are real people with real families. The Big Three, meanwhile, still employ nine out of 10 American auto workers, manufacture three out of four American-made cars and trucks and buy 80 percent of U.S.-made auto parts.
There's a problem with the claim that all the new investment in the U.S. auto industry comes from non-Big Three companies: It isn't true. Between 1980 and 2002, Ford, GM and what is now DaimlerChrysler provided 85 percent of the new investment in U.S. auto plants. That's $176 billion, compared with $27 billion from Asian and European manufacturers.
This isn't a regional issue because the Big Three employ advertising, design, engineering, manufacturing, sales and service workers all over the country. The failure of any one of these companies would be a disaster. How can we prevent it?
Here are some ideas:
Fix health care: The United States spends $1.9 trillion on health care -- yet 46 million people have no health insurance. Without comprehensive, universal, single-payer national health insurance, we will continue to shortchange our citizens.
And without the effective cost controls that accompany a truly universal system, we're imposing huge health care liabilities on U.S. businesses, impeding their ability to make job-creating new investments. Honda, Nissan, Toyota and BMW don't have this problem -- because most of their employees and retirees are in countries where universal health insurance delivers high quality care at a much lower cost.
Tackle unfair trade: Japan has spent over 460 billion in U.S. dollars to intervene in currency markets since 1998, keeping the yen artificially low against the dollar. This reduces the cost of Japanese exports and the vehicles made by Japanese firms here in the U.S. These companies can collect their U.S. sales in overpriced dollars, while paying much of their expenses in Japan using underpriced yen. The result is an unfair cost advantage of $4,000 to $14,000 per vehicle.
The United States, meanwhile, is the most open automotive market in the world, but U.S. companies face tariffs, regulations and other trade barriers when trying to sell American-made vehicles overseas.
Invest in our environment: Cleaner and greener cars are the future of the auto industry. And contrary to popular belief, GM leads the field in fuel efficiency, with more cars getting over 30 miles per gallon than any other manufacturer. Ford brought the first hybrid SUV to market, and DaimlerChrysler is a leader in clean diesel technology.
But more environmental progress is necessary and possible, as Brazil demonstrates. The government there requires vehicles to run on a blend of sugar cane, alcohol and gas, using its own natural resources, enhancing the environment and protecting local jobs.
Cleaner cars are the future
The United Auto Workers union supports incentives to create a better infrastructure for distribution of ethanol, a technologically feasible alternative fuel. We also back the consumer tax credit for gasoline-electric hybrids -- and we want to strengthen it with a manufacturer's tax credit, so the next generation of advanced engines, powertrains and vehicles will be made in the USA.
To avoid a desperate request from a near-bankrupt automaker hitting his desk, Bush can do more than simply urge companies to make "products that are relevant." He can join Republicans and Democrats in Congress to craft policies that are relevant for American companies, workers and communities.
Ron Gettelfinger is president of the UAW. This article appeared on Feb. 3, 2006, in the Detroit News’ Labor Voices.
Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout
Governments in Japan, Germany intervened to reduce risk of failure
by Ron Gettelfinger
Following the painful plant closings and job reductions announced by U.S. automakers, some people ask whether it's time for Uncle Sam to come to the rescue.
According to the Wall Street Journal, President Bush takes a "dim view of a government bailout of the struggling automakers."
"I would hope I wouldn't be asked to make that decision," he said. "Why don't we think about the best, not the worst?"
We agree: Let's think positively about an industry that employs nearly 1 million American manufacturing workers and supports the jobs and income of millions more.
Governments usually help
But President Bush and other federal policymakers must recognize that the foreign auto firms who are gaining market share in the United States did not succeed while their countries let "free markets" run their course. Japan, Germany, South Korea and other countries actively intervene to support their industries. Because they bought in early, there's less chance these governments will be forced to bail out companies later.
Some say it doesn't matter what happens to the traditional Big Three, because America still has plenty of auto jobs. The jobs are just shifting, the story goes, away from Ford, General Motors and DaimlerChrysler and toward Honda, Nissan and Toyota.
In fact, the United States has lost nearly 200,000 auto jobs in the past five years -- and behind these numbers are real people with real families. The Big Three, meanwhile, still employ nine out of 10 American auto workers, manufacture three out of four American-made cars and trucks and buy 80 percent of U.S.-made auto parts.
There's a problem with the claim that all the new investment in the U.S. auto industry comes from non-Big Three companies: It isn't true. Between 1980 and 2002, Ford, GM and what is now DaimlerChrysler provided 85 percent of the new investment in U.S. auto plants. That's $176 billion, compared with $27 billion from Asian and European manufacturers.
This isn't a regional issue because the Big Three employ advertising, design, engineering, manufacturing, sales and service workers all over the country. The failure of any one of these companies would be a disaster. How can we prevent it?
Here are some ideas:
Fix health care: The United States spends $1.9 trillion on health care -- yet 46 million people have no health insurance. Without comprehensive, universal, single-payer national health insurance, we will continue to shortchange our citizens.
And without the effective cost controls that accompany a truly universal system, we're imposing huge health care liabilities on U.S. businesses, impeding their ability to make job-creating new investments. Honda, Nissan, Toyota and BMW don't have this problem -- because most of their employees and retirees are in countries where universal health insurance delivers high quality care at a much lower cost.
Tackle unfair trade: Japan has spent over 460 billion in U.S. dollars to intervene in currency markets since 1998, keeping the yen artificially low against the dollar. This reduces the cost of Japanese exports and the vehicles made by Japanese firms here in the U.S. These companies can collect their U.S. sales in overpriced dollars, while paying much of their expenses in Japan using underpriced yen. The result is an unfair cost advantage of $4,000 to $14,000 per vehicle.
The United States, meanwhile, is the most open automotive market in the world, but U.S. companies face tariffs, regulations and other trade barriers when trying to sell American-made vehicles overseas.
Invest in our environment: Cleaner and greener cars are the future of the auto industry. And contrary to popular belief, GM leads the field in fuel efficiency, with more cars getting over 30 miles per gallon than any other manufacturer. Ford brought the first hybrid SUV to market, and DaimlerChrysler is a leader in clean diesel technology.
But more environmental progress is necessary and possible, as Brazil demonstrates. The government there requires vehicles to run on a blend of sugar cane, alcohol and gas, using its own natural resources, enhancing the environment and protecting local jobs.
Cleaner cars are the future
The United Auto Workers union supports incentives to create a better infrastructure for distribution of ethanol, a technologically feasible alternative fuel. We also back the consumer tax credit for gasoline-electric hybrids -- and we want to strengthen it with a manufacturer's tax credit, so the next generation of advanced engines, powertrains and vehicles will be made in the USA.
To avoid a desperate request from a near-bankrupt automaker hitting his desk, Bush can do more than simply urge companies to make "products that are relevant." He can join Republicans and Democrats in Congress to craft policies that are relevant for American companies, workers and communities.
Ron Gettelfinger is president of the UAW. This article appeared on Feb. 3, 2006, in the Detroit News’ Labor Voices.
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
About the only thing I do agree with there is that the government needs to reexamine foreign trade practices, particularly when it comes to the auto industry, but also just currency-manipulation in general... The US has been weak on that since the late 50s, and shows no signs of changing.
The rest of the letter is simply the big-money political donors to the UAW getting their bone thrown to them.
The rest of the letter is simply the big-money political donors to the UAW getting their bone thrown to them.
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Gov't run Health Care.....ya....that'll fix the problem. The Gov't is so efficient at other things, I'm sure that this would follow suit.
Thing is, our health care system is so completely screwed to hell and back, that regardless as to how you feel about things run by our government, it most certainly won't do any worse than what we have now.
You simply can not have free and open trade when competitors come from countries where they don't spend anything on health care because the government picks up the tab. Somethings going to (not 'have to' or 'might' give, but "will" give). Either we're going to have national health care, or we are going to raise tarriffs, or we're going to obliterate the American worker by taking his health care coverage away or we're going to ship his job overseas where costs are lower.
BTW: we already have a patchwork system of government run care, split between the state and federal level. By standardizing and expanding, the government would tame cost (via the old "Economies of scale" method), and take the burden off business.
We came very close to succeeding back in '93. Where it fell apart was when republicans set an age and income range that wouldn't be covered (something like 18-65, unless you were below a certain income leve for example) and Hilary refused to compromise and insisted on everyone being covered. You'll notice Bill never let her run a major policy effort ever again.
Last edited by guionM; Feb 18, 2006 at 06:25 AM.
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
Just a factual observation: The healthcare insurance/HMO industry is totally lined up behind Bush & the GOP. Detroit's not going to get anything from the current political powers.
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
Originally Posted by guionM
You mean like the government did curing with Polio & Small Pox,
running the mail
creating a toxic waste superfund to deal with crisis like Love Canal, which came about because government wasn't involved?
Sure, there m,ay be things where government shouldn't get involved, but no responsible person is going to sit back and say the government should not intervene with our health care mess.
Either fix the pricing, or force lower prices, or permit the use of overseas perscriptions, or take over coverage.
Thing is, our health care system is so completely screwed to hell and back, that regardless as to how you feel about things run by our government, it most certainly won't do any worse than what we have now.
You simply can not have free and open trade when competitors come from countries where they don't spend anything on health care because the government picks up the tab. Somethings going to (not 'have to' or 'might' give, but "will" give). Either we're going to have national health care, or we are going to raise tarriffs, or we're going to obliterate the American worker by taking his health care coverage away or we're going to ship his job overseas where costs are lower.
BTW: we already have a patchwork system of government run care, split between the state and federal level. By standardizing and expanding, the government would tame cost (via the old "Economies of scale" method), and take the burden off business.
We came very close to succeeding back in '93.
Where it fell apart was when republicans set an age and income range that wouldn't be covered (something like 18-65, unless you were below a certain income leve for example) and Hilary refused to compromise and insisted on everyone being covered. You'll notice Bill never let her run a major policy effort ever again.
Bob
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
An excerpt from another article:
The Canadian health insurance system not only covers everybody, it does the job for much less money. Health care spending per person in the United States in 2003 was $5,635, while in Canada health care costs were only $3,003, with significantly lower overhead.
Despite their complaints, Canadians have about the same number of doctors per 1,000 people (2.1) as Americans (2.3).
More importantly, Canadians’ vital health statistics are better: Life expectancy is 79.7 years in Canada and 77.2 in the United States.
And in Canada they can vote out the people who mess with their health care.
Despite their complaints, Canadians have about the same number of doctors per 1,000 people (2.1) as Americans (2.3).
More importantly, Canadians’ vital health statistics are better: Life expectancy is 79.7 years in Canada and 77.2 in the United States.
And in Canada they can vote out the people who mess with their health care.
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
Gov't run Health Care.....ya....that'll fix the problem. The Gov't is so efficient at other things, I'm sure that this would follow suit.
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
The government needs to understand the plight of the American car industry. Although, the political gamesmanship suggests the 'learning curve' is just a long road ahead.
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
I would like to hear from our Canadian friends on the topic of socialized healthcare, I don't think it will all be good.
I will say this: I am going to Chiropractic school in May and my future will be impacted on how healthcare and insurance works in this country. I currently work in a chiropractic office and run the insurance for it. I see everyday stuff that I know shouldn't be right, people having $35 copays and the insurance only allowing $35.30 for a procedure! That is right that means it costs people $35 to have something done but the insurance company only having to foot $0.30 of the bill! Not only that but people have premiums that are going up and up and deductibles and copays going up and up and you are looking at situations where a purely cash practice is better for the patient, in fact we DO many patients who have insurance as cash because it is cheaper for them.
The fact of the matter is that we DON'T have healthcare in this country we have SICKcare. And the main reason behind this is insurance companies controlling when and where people can get help by controlling the cost to them.
And I don't even deal with prescription medication which I know is a HUGE cost to much of our population, the population average is aging as the baby boomers grow older and people need medication.
I will say one more thing and then I am done with my little rant: I don't know if socialized healthcare is what we need, I don't know if profit limits are what we need, I only know that SOMETHING needs to be done and it needs to be done quickly! Wheather it is the government that steps in and does something or it is the American people who are getting crushed by the bills that steps in and does something I don't know but SOMETHING needs to be done.
I will get off my soapbox now.
I will say this: I am going to Chiropractic school in May and my future will be impacted on how healthcare and insurance works in this country. I currently work in a chiropractic office and run the insurance for it. I see everyday stuff that I know shouldn't be right, people having $35 copays and the insurance only allowing $35.30 for a procedure! That is right that means it costs people $35 to have something done but the insurance company only having to foot $0.30 of the bill! Not only that but people have premiums that are going up and up and deductibles and copays going up and up and you are looking at situations where a purely cash practice is better for the patient, in fact we DO many patients who have insurance as cash because it is cheaper for them.
The fact of the matter is that we DON'T have healthcare in this country we have SICKcare. And the main reason behind this is insurance companies controlling when and where people can get help by controlling the cost to them.
And I don't even deal with prescription medication which I know is a HUGE cost to much of our population, the population average is aging as the baby boomers grow older and people need medication.
I will say one more thing and then I am done with my little rant: I don't know if socialized healthcare is what we need, I don't know if profit limits are what we need, I only know that SOMETHING needs to be done and it needs to be done quickly! Wheather it is the government that steps in and does something or it is the American people who are getting crushed by the bills that steps in and does something I don't know but SOMETHING needs to be done.
I will get off my soapbox now.
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
Originally Posted by 91_z28_4me
I would like to hear from our Canadian friends on the topic of socialized healthcare, I don't think it will all be good.
I will say this: I am going to Chiropractic school in May and my future will be impacted on how healthcare and insurance works in this country. I currently work in a chiropractic office and run the insurance for it. I see everyday stuff that I know shouldn't be right, people having $35 copays and the insurance only allowing $35.30 for a procedure! That is right that means it costs people $35 to have something done but the insurance company only having to foot $0.30 of the bill! Not only that but people have premiums that are going up and up and deductibles and copays going up and up and you are looking at situations where a purely cash practice is better for the patient, in fact we DO many patients who have insurance as cash because it is cheaper for them.
The fact of the matter is that we DON'T have healthcare in this country we have SICKcare. And the main reason behind this is insurance companies controlling when and where people can get help by controlling the cost to them.
And I don't even deal with prescription medication which I know is a HUGE cost to much of our population, the population average is aging as the baby boomers grow older and people need medication.
I will say one more thing and then I am done with my little rant: I don't know if socialized healthcare is what we need, I don't know if profit limits are what we need, I only know that SOMETHING needs to be done and it needs to be done quickly! Wheather it is the government that steps in and does something or it is the American people who are getting crushed by the bills that steps in and does something I don't know but SOMETHING needs to be done.
I will get off my soapbox now.
I will say this: I am going to Chiropractic school in May and my future will be impacted on how healthcare and insurance works in this country. I currently work in a chiropractic office and run the insurance for it. I see everyday stuff that I know shouldn't be right, people having $35 copays and the insurance only allowing $35.30 for a procedure! That is right that means it costs people $35 to have something done but the insurance company only having to foot $0.30 of the bill! Not only that but people have premiums that are going up and up and deductibles and copays going up and up and you are looking at situations where a purely cash practice is better for the patient, in fact we DO many patients who have insurance as cash because it is cheaper for them.
The fact of the matter is that we DON'T have healthcare in this country we have SICKcare. And the main reason behind this is insurance companies controlling when and where people can get help by controlling the cost to them.
And I don't even deal with prescription medication which I know is a HUGE cost to much of our population, the population average is aging as the baby boomers grow older and people need medication.
I will say one more thing and then I am done with my little rant: I don't know if socialized healthcare is what we need, I don't know if profit limits are what we need, I only know that SOMETHING needs to be done and it needs to be done quickly! Wheather it is the government that steps in and does something or it is the American people who are getting crushed by the bills that steps in and does something I don't know but SOMETHING needs to be done.
I will get off my soapbox now.
Health care, auto insurance, housing insurance, life insurance, work mans comp insurance.
at one point banks could charge whatever APR's they wanted to... the government now regulates it... companys used to advertise a 1% intrest rate, read the fine print and its per day... you dont see that now. everything must be in APR. also the government put a cap on the maximum intrest a company can collect. the government could also regulate insurance...
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
Originally Posted by 91_z28_4me
I would like to hear from our Canadian friends on the topic of socialized healthcare, I don't think it will all be good.
I will say this: I am going to Chiropractic school in May and my future will be impacted on how healthcare and insurance works in this country. I currently work in a chiropractic office and run the insurance for it. I see everyday stuff that I know shouldn't be right, people having $35 copays and the insurance only allowing $35.30 for a procedure! That is right that means it costs people $35 to have something done but the insurance company only having to foot $0.30 of the bill! Not only that but people have premiums that are going up and up and deductibles and copays going up and up and you are looking at situations where a purely cash practice is better for the patient, in fact we DO many patients who have insurance as cash because it is cheaper for them.
The fact of the matter is that we DON'T have healthcare in this country we have SICKcare. And the main reason behind this is insurance companies controlling when and where people can get help by controlling the cost to them.
And I don't even deal with prescription medication which I know is a HUGE cost to much of our population, the population average is aging as the baby boomers grow older and people need medication.
I will say one more thing and then I am done with my little rant: I don't know if socialized healthcare is what we need, I don't know if profit limits are what we need, I only know that SOMETHING needs to be done and it needs to be done quickly! Wheather it is the government that steps in and does something or it is the American people who are getting crushed by the bills that steps in and does something I don't know but SOMETHING needs to be done.
I will get off my soapbox now.
I will say this: I am going to Chiropractic school in May and my future will be impacted on how healthcare and insurance works in this country. I currently work in a chiropractic office and run the insurance for it. I see everyday stuff that I know shouldn't be right, people having $35 copays and the insurance only allowing $35.30 for a procedure! That is right that means it costs people $35 to have something done but the insurance company only having to foot $0.30 of the bill! Not only that but people have premiums that are going up and up and deductibles and copays going up and up and you are looking at situations where a purely cash practice is better for the patient, in fact we DO many patients who have insurance as cash because it is cheaper for them.
The fact of the matter is that we DON'T have healthcare in this country we have SICKcare. And the main reason behind this is insurance companies controlling when and where people can get help by controlling the cost to them.
And I don't even deal with prescription medication which I know is a HUGE cost to much of our population, the population average is aging as the baby boomers grow older and people need medication.
I will say one more thing and then I am done with my little rant: I don't know if socialized healthcare is what we need, I don't know if profit limits are what we need, I only know that SOMETHING needs to be done and it needs to be done quickly! Wheather it is the government that steps in and does something or it is the American people who are getting crushed by the bills that steps in and does something I don't know but SOMETHING needs to be done.
I will get off my soapbox now.
The way it would work is a non-profit insurance organization would be able to offer a better health coverage solution based on the fact that they don't have to satisfy any stock holders and that whatever money is left over at the end of the year would get returned back to the customer either through lower premiums or better coverage/services offered (at the choice of the "members"). Obviously all the "books" and accounting would be public domain to prevent/deter abuse.
It wouldn't be the "total" solution, but it seems to me like a good start. Plus it's another way to prevent the gov't from socializing healthcare.
Bottom line, people's health should NOT be about business or making money for a company or a corporation. Obviously the doctors, nurses, all kinds of staff and basically everyone involved in the industry should be paid their market dictated salaries (no salary caps, to continue to attract the BEST people), but the organizations overall, should not be allowed to profit in the end.
Last edited by morb|d; Feb 19, 2006 at 02:38 AM.
Re: "Big 3 need Bush's buy-in, not a bailout "
I'm going to go a little off topic here, sorry.
Anyways, as far as rising health care costs go, the people themselves are just as responsible. We live in a society of chain smokers, binge drinkers, obese people stuffing their faces with fatty and salty crap. They spend their whole lives living like this, and when their body finally breaks down, they ask who is going to pay to make them better. No personal responsibility.
Back on topic. Here in Canada we have socialized health care. Although no politician would dare to admit it, this system will one day ruin the country. The costs are skyrocketting. To actually do something about it is political suicide. Canadians have gotten used to 'free' health care, any politician or party who tries to take that away will get killed at the next election. So they do nothing. They make it look like they are working on the issue:
- they comission 2 year studies ( the real goal is to make the problem go away for awhile). After the study is delivered, it is ignored (see the 'Romanow study' if you are interested).
- they make vague promises about finding ways to cut down on the wait time for essential surgeries (the wait times keep going up (imagine being told you have a growth on your intestine, but you'll have to wait 7 months to have it removed))
- and when push comes to shove, every 5 years or so, the politicians promise to throw a lot more money at the problem. They then give themselves a round of applause and pats on the back for saving health care.
This is your future if you get government run health care.
Anyways, as far as rising health care costs go, the people themselves are just as responsible. We live in a society of chain smokers, binge drinkers, obese people stuffing their faces with fatty and salty crap. They spend their whole lives living like this, and when their body finally breaks down, they ask who is going to pay to make them better. No personal responsibility.
Back on topic. Here in Canada we have socialized health care. Although no politician would dare to admit it, this system will one day ruin the country. The costs are skyrocketting. To actually do something about it is political suicide. Canadians have gotten used to 'free' health care, any politician or party who tries to take that away will get killed at the next election. So they do nothing. They make it look like they are working on the issue:
- they comission 2 year studies ( the real goal is to make the problem go away for awhile). After the study is delivered, it is ignored (see the 'Romanow study' if you are interested).
- they make vague promises about finding ways to cut down on the wait time for essential surgeries (the wait times keep going up (imagine being told you have a growth on your intestine, but you'll have to wait 7 months to have it removed))
- and when push comes to shove, every 5 years or so, the politicians promise to throw a lot more money at the problem. They then give themselves a round of applause and pats on the back for saving health care.
This is your future if you get government run health care.


