For those thinking that the Holden Commodore is somehow the "car to keep an eye on" (still get a kick out of that post ) regarding the next Camaro, and those who wonder how much of the VE will be in GM North America's RWD cars, this is probally the best, most direct, dead on description I've seen in print (Holden had a crackdown on leaks not too long ago, so I'm a bit more careful about what I post).

It refers to Gene Stefanyshyn's job description as "General Motor's Global Vehicle Line Executive, Global Rear-Wheel Drive Architecture" based at General Motors Holden, and is the best summary I've read yet regarding Holden's role in the US RWD program:

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=18718

As has been mentioned by other's here before (and coined Zeta 2 by Charlie ), the vehicle we'll be making here will be structurally different than the Holden (almost certainly Sigma-based the way Holden's is VZ-based), but will be modified by Holden to accept a standardized set of bolt-ons, such as suspension and subchassis assemblies.... arguably the most costly part of a newly engineered car.

I think I posted this a long time ago. I'll look it up when I have more time.


BTW: They mentioned the Buick convertible, not me.

 

Sorry, i don't mean to veer OT but could you please clear up a misunderstanding on my part?...

I don't understand what you mean when you refer to VE as being 'VZ' based? To me, Zeta is Zeta. I know you've mentioned this before but I thought I'd wait for the car to be released first.

 

Zeta is nothing more than a set of componets and a manufacturing process.

The Holden VE contains roughly 30% structural parts from the VZ, so Holden used whatever they could from the VZ. That's the big thing that made it not so great an idea for the US.

Those stampings that weren't carried over, were changed for NVH improvements, closer fitting gaps, cost savings on the assembly line, and to fit a more modern rear suspension. Holden revised much of the manufactruring process for the VE, and a good portion of the front suspension is carried over.

By using the Sigma as a "jump-off" point for our "Zeta" instead of simply using Holden's VZ, there's going to be money saved since Sigma is already in production. I'm guessing there might be a bit of NIH (not invented here) at play as well. Having Holden "VE-ize" a Sigma by modifying the body to accept the front & rear suspension and create a new modular manufacturing process probally feels alot different from a GMNA engineer's standpoint than simply purchasing the machinary to make a rebadged Statesman & Commodore here.

 

Something tells me we might be getting both re-badge cars and GMNA built cars depending on application(market).

 

I think the original intention was to carry-over as much VE as possible into Zeta 2. But I'm getting some indications that the Camaro is turning into a bigger Zeta re-do than originally intended.

Hopefully that's a good thing and all will end well. I suspect some egos will be bruised.

 

So just to get this straight in my head

VE is composed of 30% VZ and 70% new stuff

GMNA Zeta (Zeta2) is composed of Sigma and VE?

 

Sigma body components with VE suspensions. I think some people have actually been saying that for quite some time.

 

I'm not so sure if that's the case. I can see Zeta and Sigma programs being merged into one platform in the future though.

 

Sounds like that is what guy is hinting at. But I can definately Sigma and Zeta I and II all being merged into a single truely global RWD platform.

 

We'll get some imports from Holden. Although they freely hint at it at Holden, no one on record is saying which cars.

I'm gonna "speculate" that we'll get a version of the Commodore for Pontiac and a version of the Statesman-Caprice for Buick.

I'm "guessing" that both cars will be more "Aspiational Cars" (low production showroom traffic builders) than high volume cars much the way GTO was.

Neither will be replacing any existing cars, so we aren't talking about a replacement for Grand Prix or Lucerne. I'd "speculate" we are more likely talking about a Buick Roadmaster or Statesman & a Pontiac G8 or a interim & temporary GTO sedan.

Disclaimer:
The GTO name on a sedan is ONLY speculation (no winkie) on my part, based on the Commo V8 sedan we're "likely" to get, and Bob Lutz comments where he acknowledged the Buick Statesman & GTO was a definate, but said the Camaro wasn't approved and they were still trying to get the Ute & El Camino OK'ed. A car like this most likely would carry the G8 name.

I would "speculate" (winkie included) that we'd see a Holden Commodore SSv here with a Pontiac nose by the close of 2007CY and a Holden Statesman with Buick styling cues early 2008CY and the new Camaro & Impala within 12 months of that.

 

A more accurate way to phrase it is probally the GM North America volume RWD platform will have the VE suspension assemblies and new modular manufacturing techniques developed by Holden.

I doubt if you pull the skin and suspension off the US car, that it will look too much like a VE or a CTS structure, though there might be a few identifiable parts.

Charlie's right in that both will eventially merge if GM's plans don't change.

 

Precisely what I've been thinking.

 

Zeta 2? I thought we coined that "Zegma."

Slightly back on topic....

I just thought it was funny/interesting when the Commodore debuted a few weeks ago that one of the first things more/less out of Holden's mouth was "hey....make a great pontiac!"

 

Huh?? Please explain. The GTO from 04 till 06 didn't sell much over 15K units a year. I would not call that a "high" volume car.

 

Why couldn't Holden make the next GTO a coupe, and just pick up where they left off with the last GTO? All it needs is more optional equipment, a usable trunk, faster seats, and they would sell everyone they make. I am pretty sure Holden has a coupe version of VE engineered somewhere overthere, or can pull one out its ***.

Making a sedan GTO and importing it from Holden makes no sense. It is like saying the coupe does not sell enough, so we are gonna **** on every loyalist, and make it sedan. But wait...we are still importing from Holden, so we STILL can not sell more than 20K units a year! If they make a sedan GTO you will **** off more people that you will gain in sales IMO. I know Charlie, or Guy will post some rational, skewed historical explaination of why a sedan GTO is acceptable...but I can see no way it will do nothing but get negative vibes in the community, and the press. GM got a lot of negative vibes on the GTO name with the current car...I'd really hate to see it get run through the ringer again.