Bad Mouthing American / Canadian Vehicles Get the Facts Straight!
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Bad Mouthing American / Canadian Vehicles Get the Facts Straight!
Just passing this on...
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Here are some facts from the web that don't get the press they deserve - next time you hear negative comments about domestic this may come in handy it also has the sites that the info came from as well.
QUESTIONS
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
a. Germany
b. Japan
c. Korea
d. United States
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. GM
d. Nissan
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Acura, BMW, Cadillac (all luxury makes)
b. Honda, Mercury, Nissan (all non-luxury makes)
c. Acura (lux), Chevrolet (non-lux), BMW (lux), Mazda (non-lux)
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima (Nissan)
c. Camry (Toyota)
d. Malibu (Chevrolet)
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Avalon (Toyota)
b. Grand Prix (Pontiac)
c. Sable (Mercury)
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
a. Dakota (Dodge)
b. Ranger (Ford)
c. Tacoma (Toyota)
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
a. Aveo (Chevrolet)
b. Fit (Honda)
c. Prius (Toyota)
8. Which car did the LA Times describe as "a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti"?
a. A6 (Audi)
b. CTS (Cadillac)
c. RL (Acura)
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 "Green Car of the Year" award?
a. Chevrolet
b. Honda
c. Toyota
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the "North American Car of the Year" for 2007?
a. Aura (Saturn)
b. Camry (Toyota)
c. Fit (Honda)
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima coupe (Nissan)
c. Malibu (Chevrolet)
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. General Motors
d. Hyundai
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
QUESTIONS
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
a. Germany
b. Japan
c. Korea
d. United States
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. GM
d. Nissan
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Acura, BMW, Cadillac (all luxury makes)
b. Honda, Mercury, Nissan (all non-luxury makes)
c. Acura (lux), Chevrolet (non-lux), BMW (lux), Mazda (non-lux)
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima (Nissan)
c. Camry (Toyota)
d. Malibu (Chevrolet)
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
a. Avalon (Toyota)
b. Grand Prix (Pontiac)
c. Sable (Mercury)
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
a. Dakota (Dodge)
b. Ranger (Ford)
c. Tacoma (Toyota)
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
a. Aveo (Chevrolet)
b. Fit (Honda)
c. Prius (Toyota)
8. Which car did the LA Times describe as "a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti"?
a. A6 (Audi)
b. CTS (Cadillac)
c. RL (Acura)
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 "Green Car of the Year" award?
a. Chevrolet
b. Honda
c. Toyota
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the "North American Car of the Year" for 2007?
a. Aura (Saturn)
b. Camry (Toyota)
c. Fit (Honda)
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
a. Accord (Honda)
b. Altima coupe (Nissan)
c. Malibu (Chevrolet)
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
a. Chrysler
b. Ford
c. General Motors
d. Hyundai
e. Toyota
f. Volkswagen
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ANSWERS
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Answer: Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as "a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti"?
Answer: "Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism." Dan Neil, LA Times.
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 "Green Car of the Year" award?
Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award.. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, "What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. "
Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the "North American Car of the Year" for 2007?
Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, "When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89." Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.
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If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.
Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U..S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.
a. Answer: Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.
4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?
Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?
Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
7. Which car is the most economical overall?
Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as "a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti"?
Answer: "Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism." Dan Neil, LA Times.
9. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 "Green Car of the Year" award?
Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award.. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, "What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. "
Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the "North American Car of the Year" for 2007?
Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, "When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89." Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07
11. Which car won the same award for 2008?
Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.
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If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.
Detroit automakers: 79 U.S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Foreign automakers: 33 U..S. jobs per 2,500 cars sold in America.
Thread Starter
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 11,157
From: Nashville, TN area
The e-mail had links to back up the statements, but they were unfortunately incomplete/truncated but I personally have no reason to question the source that sent it to me. I am working on getting the links and will edit the post accordingly.
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Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,320
From: Memphis
I already knew the majority of those answers before reading them, and yes it would do a ton of good for at least GM and Ford (Chrysler, who IMO pretty much continues to suck about like always, didn't really get but one mention in there).
The problem is that right now somebody could just as easily come up with an amazingly large list (far larger than the above list) of poor reviews and quality ratings that GM and Ford have gotten in the last couple years.
And it seems people tend to take notice of whichever ones they WANT to take notice of first... whether bad or good.
Recently for example it seems like almost every GM-made long term test vehicle Edmunds has had in their fleet has suffered some pretty ridiculous problems. And of course they write all about it, and hundreds of thousands of people read all about it and spread the word.
I'm not sure if Edmunds has just had really poor luck or if they only write about these problems in domestic vehicles and ignore then otherwise or if GM vehicles just aren't holding up so well in the long term despite the fact that quite a few of them are getting rave reviews from JD Power for 3 month (initial) quality.
The problem is that right now somebody could just as easily come up with an amazingly large list (far larger than the above list) of poor reviews and quality ratings that GM and Ford have gotten in the last couple years.
And it seems people tend to take notice of whichever ones they WANT to take notice of first... whether bad or good.
Recently for example it seems like almost every GM-made long term test vehicle Edmunds has had in their fleet has suffered some pretty ridiculous problems. And of course they write all about it, and hundreds of thousands of people read all about it and spread the word.
I'm not sure if Edmunds has just had really poor luck or if they only write about these problems in domestic vehicles and ignore then otherwise or if GM vehicles just aren't holding up so well in the long term despite the fact that quite a few of them are getting rave reviews from JD Power for 3 month (initial) quality.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
It's all about advertizing. Ford has been beating the gold-standard, Honda, for at least a year, but I haven't seen 1 commercial about it. GM has plenty of cars that are tops in their catagory or at least beat Toyota, but again, it's not a part of the advertizing.
But in another thread, although it's thrown out as a negitive, it's really a positive. While 40% of the public believe US automakers don't make the cars they want, 60% DO! Take that poll a few years ago, and it would at the very least be the opposite.
I think the real problem now is the big 3 actually making cars that the public want, now that quality is nailed. The Chevrolet Impala has a very solid interior and is very dependable. But after going through cars at this year's auto shows, the current Impala is obsolete. The interior (and exterior) is hopelessly dull. Malibu is a nice start. The new Fusion is a head-turner. Cadillac is just about perfect.
There are always going to be those who you will never convince. We may never see 70% or even 67% (2/3) of the public say US carmakers make the type of car they want or that the quality of US makers are on par with imports.
You're competing against 30 years worth of bad history, and at least 25 of them are well deserved.
With no other external help (a new national depression or a series of highly publicized mishaps with import brands.... ie: Mitsubishi's mishaps some years ago which they've never recovered) it's going to take 20-30 years to undo that history.
But in another thread, although it's thrown out as a negitive, it's really a positive. While 40% of the public believe US automakers don't make the cars they want, 60% DO! Take that poll a few years ago, and it would at the very least be the opposite.
I think the real problem now is the big 3 actually making cars that the public want, now that quality is nailed. The Chevrolet Impala has a very solid interior and is very dependable. But after going through cars at this year's auto shows, the current Impala is obsolete. The interior (and exterior) is hopelessly dull. Malibu is a nice start. The new Fusion is a head-turner. Cadillac is just about perfect.
There are always going to be those who you will never convince. We may never see 70% or even 67% (2/3) of the public say US carmakers make the type of car they want or that the quality of US makers are on par with imports.
You're competing against 30 years worth of bad history, and at least 25 of them are well deserved.
With no other external help (a new national depression or a series of highly publicized mishaps with import brands.... ie: Mitsubishi's mishaps some years ago which they've never recovered) it's going to take 20-30 years to undo that history.
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Posts: 1,018
It's all about the facts presented and which facts you choose to present. Nevermind that GM took the cake in 2006 for recalls, and although the Volkswagen New Beetle was the most recalled CAR of 2007 (affecting just over 1M units), it was Ford that took the cake with an overall recall of 3.6M vehicles.
It's a cute Q&A, but as Threxx stated, a list just as long could be made with "facts" to support the other side.
If you believe it's a product issue; American auto manufacturers are failing. Look at the sales numbers. If you believe it's a perception issue; American auto manufacturers are failing. Look at the sales numbers.
And really? To get the reliability of a Lexus in a GM product, we have to buy a Buick?
Truly, I wish GM was murdering the market and at the top of everyone's "good" list. They wouldn't be in the position they are in now.
It's a cute Q&A, but as Threxx stated, a list just as long could be made with "facts" to support the other side.
If you believe it's a product issue; American auto manufacturers are failing. Look at the sales numbers. If you believe it's a perception issue; American auto manufacturers are failing. Look at the sales numbers.
And really? To get the reliability of a Lexus in a GM product, we have to buy a Buick?
Truly, I wish GM was murdering the market and at the top of everyone's "good" list. They wouldn't be in the position they are in now.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
It's all about the facts presented and which facts you choose to present. Nevermind that GM took the cake in 2006 for recalls, and although the Volkswagen New Beetle was the most recalled CAR of 2007 (affecting just over 1M units), it was Ford that took the cake with an overall recall of 3.6M vehicles.
That 3.6 million Fords you mention includes:
1998-2002 Ford Ranger,
1992-1997 Lincoln Town Car,
1992-1997 Ford Crown Victoria,
1992-1997 Mercury Grand Marquis,
1993-1998 Lincoln Mark VIII,
1993-1995 Ford Taurus SHO,
1999-2001 Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer.
And for good measure included:
the 2001-2002 Ford Explorer Sport,
2001-2002 Ford Explorer Sport Trac,
1992-1993 E150-350 vans,
1997-2002 E150-350 vans, 1993 Ford F-Series pickups,
1993 Ford Bronco,
1994 Mercury Capri,
2003-2004 Ford F-150 Lightning,
1995-2002 Ford F53 motor homes.
Not only was not a single recall newer than 2004 (Ford's Lightning only), but almost all is exclusively 2002 and earlier models, primarily from the 1990s.
What was this massive recall over?
Texas Instruments supplied speed control devices for Ford "responding to concerns from owners about the safety of their cars and questions about the speed control deactivation switch in the vehicles that is powered at all times".
Texas Instruments supplied speed control devices faced at least 6 recalls when Ford was using them, and as you can see by the models affected, Ford phased them out as part of their improved quality.
As a note, Ford hasn't had a major or safety related recall on their post 2004 (5 years now). The only US based manufacturer to be able to make that claim. Infact, Honda, Toyota, and Nissan can't even make that claim, let alone other US automakers. Every new Ford model introduction has gone virturally flawless since the new Mustang and F series truck.
Moral of the story: If you are going to say Ford "took the cake" in recalls in the same post you remark "the facts presented and which facts you choose to present", it might be worthwile to take a moment and check things out and learn all the facts or keep product bias in check.
Last edited by guionM; Dec 8, 2008 at 04:00 PM.
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Posts: 1,018
Moral of the story: If you are going to say Ford "took the cake" in recalls in the same post you remark "the facts presented and which facts you choose to present", it might be worthwile to take a moment and check things out and learn all the facts or keep product bias in check.
(i.e. Ford Ranger having higher initial quality than a Toyota. Well yeah--Ford has had the Ranger on the same chassis/platform for 16 years. I think it still uses the same door panels it did in 1993, not to mention drivetrain and other components. Nevermind the truck is considered to be horribly outmoded and outdated, and isn't selling well. But we're fairly confident that over the last 16 years we worked out the bugs!)
A lot of people take me to be a foreign-car convert. No, most of my blood really is Chevrolet still...but I'm also a very critical thinker.
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Of course, such things often turn into a finger-pointing contest but I suspect that once you get past that part of it, you would find that many problems are a matter of a supplier not truly meeting the design specifications or an assembly line worker not doing something properly.
Of course, the IQS doesn't get into that sort of thing at all; in fact as I understand the IQS, a buyer being less than satisfied with a vehicle's radio is as much of a "hit" (for purposes of the survey) as having a major mechanical problem.
I also think there is a tendency of some to concentrate on a particular "model" rather than the entire nameplate...in any given year, any model can show up ahead of any other but I would suggest that how a brand does as a whole and how the public views a brand as a whole is of far more importance.
Last edited by Robert_Nashville; Dec 8, 2008 at 07:35 PM.
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From: Annapolis Md. USA
I just read today how GM apoligized for not making quality cars and cars people wanted, while focusing on SUV's. Seems like GM even admits they lost track. Good news is they are on tracks now and will do well if they survive the next year.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,802
From: Annapolis MD
Alot of people buy used also. That means the used vehicle they buy usually about 5 years, independent reviews, and people who own those vehicles is what they base their opinon on. Ive heard alot of arguements, "well if it breaks by that time Ill trade it in or sell it anyway". Thats great for that person, but not person who buys it. Worse for the person who buys that used vehicle and gives their impression to someone who can consider new vehicles.
Turning around 25 years of bad reputation isnt an easy thing to do.
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There is another "perception" at play here that many people don't like to talk about; it has nothing to do with design quality or appealing style (or lack of) of the vehicles...it's the perception that Japanese or German or Korean workers make better cars than do American workers...that they have a better work ethic...that they pay more attention to detail.
I beleive that the American worker can be (and often is) more productinve than their foreign counterparts but my believe (or yours) won't erase the perception of the overpaid, lazy union car worker that shows up with a hangover on Monday and by Thursday can only think about the end of his shift on Friday (meaning you should only buy a car that was made on Tuesday or Wednesday).
I think that it's going to take a lot of J.D. Power surveys over a long time to overcome that perception.
I beleive that the American worker can be (and often is) more productinve than their foreign counterparts but my believe (or yours) won't erase the perception of the overpaid, lazy union car worker that shows up with a hangover on Monday and by Thursday can only think about the end of his shift on Friday (meaning you should only buy a car that was made on Tuesday or Wednesday).
I think that it's going to take a lot of J.D. Power surveys over a long time to overcome that perception.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 176
From: Cleveland, OH
i'd be careful deploying any of that data in an arguement. It's positive, but it fails to address any of the fatal criticisms of the Big three.
Not gonna sway most critics i'm afraid. It does support the statement that the Big three, or at least parts of it, can be saved and succeed. With a clean slate and the right direction no one can argue that they don't know how to build cars.
Not gonna sway most critics i'm afraid. It does support the statement that the Big three, or at least parts of it, can be saved and succeed. With a clean slate and the right direction no one can argue that they don't know how to build cars.
